Ego discussion, Part 2

March 11, 2013 Divine Love Talk

Guests: Dr. Sarah Larson and Kim Michaels

Topics: The very least you should know about the ego, part 2 of 4.  The ego and its need to create continuous conflict through power games, along with the keys to mastering the ego.  

(The very beginning of the recording is missing.)

Kim: The ego is wanting to interfere here.  It must be my ego, since it’s my echo.  Actually the echo is gone now, so hopefully the ego is gone with it.  So the shortest definition of the ego is that it’s basically an artificial intruder in our mind and our being.  And it’s trying to keep us in the illusion that we are separate beings.  We our separated from our own source, our higher self, and we are separated from God.  We are separated from each other.

Parthenia:Alright.  And I like to call it our false self and that we have – Martin Luther King said that we are all somewhat schizophrenic and that we are at war with ourselves.  And it’s the false self, or the ego, that tends to be at war with our higher self.  And it tends to harm itself, to harm others and to harm society.  And I know that Dr. Sarah has -

Dr. Sarah:My version of the ego is anything that can be offended.  If there is a feeling of being offended, for me personally, I know that my ego’s coming out.  And to me it’s a little bit of a gift so that I can see another part of myself to dive into and examine better.  So anytime I feel separated from that person and not feeling love or compassion or feeling like information is coming towards me. When it’s triggered and there is discomfort; that’s a real indicator for me.  And overall, I think we define ego as arrogance, selfishness, greed, a sense of entitlement; even neediness is ego.

Parthenia:Right, because when you’re in your higher self, you’re essentially at one with everybody, you’re at peace with the world, and you’re compassionate at the struggles that people are having with their egos.  And I’m able to look at other people when they are going through their ego drama and say: ‘OK, that’s what’s going on with them and so I’m not gonna take it personal.’  But at the same time, I’m not going to let that person pull me into that struggle.

Dr. Sarah:Right.  Exactly.  And that’s the biggest – I think the biggest challenge.  I’m sure Kim Michaels has a lot – what are some of the challenges that the ego comes up and faces?

Parthenia:Causes us to have to face.

Dr. Sarah:Yes.

Kim Michaels:  Well, I think it’s a good point you make about being offended, because once we get into this idea that we are separate beings – there are some advantages to being a separate being, because you can do certain things you can’t do when you see yourself as part of the whole.  You know, you can’t really act like a jerk if you see yourself as one with another person.  But there’s also a price we pay, and that is that we are always threatened.  So we are threatened by those who are different.  If you go to the very core of the issue of separation – the moment we go into that, we feel that we are not complete, we are not good enough.  And so, what we go into is this gigantic game of seeking to compensate for that feeling of inadequacy or inferiority.  And so the ego causes us to go into this constant struggle of validating ourselves as separate beings; which we can never really do, because as a separate being you can’t control the world.  I mean Stalin, Mao, Hitler, they all tried and the failed.  And if they can’t do it, then I probably can’t do it.  And so what’s the point in trying.  So, we basically have to come to the point where we say: ‘Do I want to continue living in this state of always being threatened, always being in opposition to others, always feeling inadequate?  Or do I want to try to do something different?’  

(Parthenia and Dr. Sarah talk about epic struggles and dualism.  How do you bring someone out of their ego?  Horizontal and vertical love.)

Parthenia:Kim, can you address this whole concept of why it’s so difficult for the ego to receive love?

Kim Michaels:  What is love?  It’s basically oneness.  And this is one thing that the ego cannot deal with, is oneness; because for the ego it is a life and death issue.  If you are freed from the illusion of separation and see the underlying reality of Oneness; you are not going to identify with the ego and you’re ego will eventually die.  I mean, there is no way around it.  So, the ego may say it wants love; but it wants its own version of love, which is conditional love.

Parthenia:And control.

Kim:Yeah.  Because what we have been exposed to, or what we have experience in the world, is mostly conditional love for most people.  And it’s a love where people may say they love us, but they are actually trying to control us through that love.

Parthenia:…You made a very cogent point about the fact that because the ego is into separation, and love is all about oneness and connectedness; essentially when you are in a place of love, there can’t be any ego.  It cannot exist when it’s in the eternal now and when it’s in a place of love.  And I’ve found that if you can get people to be fully present in the moment, then there is no ego, the ego king of vanishes when you are mindful, when you are in the present moment …

Dr. Sarah:…One of the things that I see a lot recently is in this me generation of acceptance conformity.  And even servility.  They’re in service or their not standing up for what they believe in. …

Parthenia:So, Kim, last week we talked about when people move out of black and white thinking.  And then they move into this grey area, where anything goes.  And they believe that they can actually love someone’s ego away, without the other person taking responsibility for their behavior. And for us being able to stand in our truth and awaken people to how their behavior is hurting or harming other people.  Can you talk a little bit about that, that grey area that we get into where we are afraid to stand up and speak what I would call kind words of love that are designed to shake that person up in terms of understanding the impact of their behavior and the consequences of their behavior?  Does that make sense?

Kim:  Yeah, yeah.  Well, I think that both of you just brought up some good points there, about the now and about conformity.  What you were saying about the ego can’t exist in the now is exactly what Eckhart Tolle is saying in The Power of Now, where he says the ego can only deal with past and future; but in the now it just doesn’t know what to do.  But I think also the conformity that you were talking about Sarah is that people are into grey thinking.  And I think this is, like we talked about last time, when you start moving out of black and white thinking and you start seeing all the conflicts that’s come out of black and white thinking; you really just want to withdraw from that, you really don’t want to deal with this anymore.  And so you tend to go to the opposite extreme of being so afraid of conflict that you just do anything you can to avoid a conflict.


Parthenia:… This equating love with pain, that’s a real misconception of the ego.  And Kim, I’d like to throw that one over to you.

Kim Michaels:  There is an old story about how these teachers of human kind, that I call the ascended masters, were having a council.  And they were discussing how they could win over people on earth, because they were so difficult to deal with, so difficult to reach for the spiritual teachers.  And so one of the ascended masters, who name was Lord Maitreya - he asked: ‘Can we win them with kindness?’  And the answer he got from someone higher up was: ‘Yes, but only if you master the 144 shades of kindness.’  So, in other words, we tend to think that kindness is always soft and soft spoken and submissive.  But every god quality has both an alpha, which is more an expansive quality, and it has an omega, which is more of the in-going quality.  And so, many times we have this false image that if we are kind to people, we never challenge their ego.

And I think that if we are to really avoid the grey thinking, that you were talking about earlier; we have to realize that there is a more out-going active side of love and kindness.  Because, really in that situation there, the man obviously wasn’t loving the woman; he was trying to control her by claiming to love her, you know.  And so what I’m saying is that that wasn’t one of the 144 shades of love, because that’s a false love that comes from the ego.  But one shade of love could be that you openly speak your truth, like you were talking about earlier.  And many young people, today, are afraid of doing that.  And that’s not really love and that’s not really kindness.  But I think the important point there is to come to that point where you can speak your truth, but you don’t do it with any emotional overlay.  You’re not seeking validation.  So, if people don’t accept what you say, you just say: ‘OK that’s fine, but I said what I said.’  And you let people go.  But it isn’t kind to let someone be stuck in their ego and they can’t see it and you don’t say it.


Parthenia:… The question I wanted to begin with is why is the salvation of the separate egoic self impossible?  So I’m going to start out with you, Kim, on that one.  And then Dr. Sarah and I will go into it.

Kim Michaels:  Well, I would say that salvation means coming back into Oneness after we separated ourselves out from Oneness.  And it was the ego that actually enabled us to separate ourselves from Oneness and build the illusion that we are a separate self.  So, obviously, the ego can never bring us back into the Oneness that it was designed to take us out of.

(Dr. Sarah and Parthenia discuss how our mind tunes into anger and how empathy, awareness and understanding can pull yourself out of the spiral, how gratitude and appreciation can play a part.)

Parthenia:  Kim, I would like to address why we must seek the zone of inner silence and inner peace; and how we can seek the zone of inner silence and inner peace.

Kim Michaels:  Well, one reason is we talk about the ego always making you feel that you are in conflict and that you are threatened.  And that sense of always having to defend yourself and anticipate what somebody might do to you obviously creates a lot of noise inside yourself and your mind and your emotions and your thoughts.  And so, if you are completely absorbed in this game; you just can’t ever step outside of the ego.  There’s just no way.  And you were talking about it earlier about some people who say you can learn to master your ego.  Or some people even say you can spiritualize the ego.  But, the reality of it is that you just have to separate yourself from the ego.  But, you can’t separate yourself from the ego, unless you know that you are more than the ego.  And you can’t actually really know that as a theoretical concept.

You know, I have tried to tell people this.  Some people understand it intellectually and they accept it intellectually; but what I’ve found is, the real difference is – have people actually experienced a state of consciousness that is not ego.  And that’s very much what you are talking about with the inner stillness, because almost every religion in the world has a mystical branch.  And there are many mystical teachings that are not really part of a formal religion at all.  And they all say the same thing.  That if you go to the very bottom of your identity, you find something that is either stillness or pure awareness or naked awareness or witnessing.  There’s different names for it.  I like to call it the conscious you, but that’s just another name.  And so, if you have experienced that, if you have experienced that deep within you there is a point of silence, a point of stillness, a point of awareness, where you are just not aware of all the normal thoughts and feelings, you’re just aware; then you know from experience that you are more than the ego.

And that means that now you have a frame of reference for separating yourself from the ego.  Because the only way you can really separate yourself from the ego – I mean, it’s actually simple to do or it’s simple to explain, but it’s probably hard to do – but it is you have to look at yourself and you have to say: ‘Is there more than one me?  Who is it that’s reacting in this negative way with anger?  Is that really me, or is that just a part of me?  Is that just the ego reacting that way?’  And then if you realize that you have the ability to actually observe your ego, then you can say: ‘Well who is it that’s observing myself?’  And that’s the authentic you.  Well, that’s the pure consciousness that you are, the core of your lower being, the pure you.  And once you start getting in contact with that and experiencing that, it becomes easier and easier to, like I was just describing, being aware of: ‘Oh, now I’m in a situation here.  Why am I angry?  Why am I reacting to this?’  And that’s when you can do what you were talking about, you can avoid the whole blame game.

(Parthenia and Dr. Sarah talk about experiencing breath and silence.  Being fully present.  Move into compassion for others and yourself.  Constantly ask yourself questions.)

Parthenia:OK now, Kim, I would like to ask you, given this topic of the ego – and the ego, we know we can’t bring it into the kingdom – and every sage and every master out there, they have had to master their egos.  Jesus went into the dessert, you know, for 40 days and he was famous for saying: ‘Get thee behind me Satan.’  And when we come back after the commercial break, I’d like for you to answer the question: ‘What is the key to immortality?’


Parthenia:… We have a caller on the line.  And I wanted Kim to very quickly address the key to immortality; because we’re going to have some shows coming up dealing with physical immortality, spiritual immortality.  So Kim.

Kim Michaels:  Well, the two word answer is One ness.  And that’s about as short as I can make it.

Tiffany calls in again: … If you could expand on your answer last week.  How do I come out of my greyness, without becoming an accusatory black and white person?  Because I’m dealing with someone who is getting very irate and upset with me for not wanting to judge or be in a very concrete black and white place. …

Kim Michaels:  So, in other words, the other person feels threatened, because you are not threatening them by judging them?


Kim Michaels:  And what I want to say is you have to kind of distance yourself a little bit from this and say: ‘But why do you react to that?’  I mean what I always try to do with myself is, just like Sarah was describing earlier, you know, how she was actually in a situation when she was in a restroom and she was actually monitoring herself and her own reactions and asking herself: ‘Why am I reacting to this situation?’  And I always try to do the same.  If I have a reaction in me where I feel threatened or have a non-peaceful reaction; I always ask: ‘What is it in me that is causing me to react this way?”  And I think many times, if you are a grey person, it’s actually that you have started seeing the unpleasantness of black and white thinking.  But you haven’t actually transcended the duality, the polarity of it.  Because black and white thinking doesn’t exist at all, it actually exists in a polarity with grey thinking.  So you can be in one extreme of black and white thinking.  And then when people start going out of that, they often swing over to the opposite extreme of grey thinking.  And you need to find the middle way that we have talked about, where you are not reacting to the person in black and white thinking.  And therefore, you are not feeling that he is threatening you.  Right now, it sounds like you are feeling threatened, because he is saying you are wrong by not judging other people, you are wrong by not taking a stand.  And in a sense, maybe he has point.



Copyright © 2013 Kim Michaels


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