Are we living in a Matrix? Part 2


May 11, 2015 Divine Love Talk

(… indicates omission of some conversation. _______ indicates a commercial break. () indicate additions by the transcriber or paraphrasing of a skipped segment. (?) indicates places the transcriber could not discern what was said.)

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Topics: Separation. What is the sphere Kim refers to? Unplugging from the matrix. Why are the power elite allowed? Awakening to the spiritual path. Kim's books, How You Can Help Change the World and Cosmology of Evil, are mentioned. Kim's websites, and, are also mentioned.

Parthenia:Alright. I’m always excited to be back here back here with my co-host, Kim Michaels, joining us via Skype. Last week, we had a fascinating discussion about the possibility of us being part of a Matrix or simulation program. And so, for those of you who were not with us last week, Kim, I'd like for you to open up by summing up where you thought we were on this concept. And then, I'd like to continue with some of the questions that were sent in by listeners from Australia; because the questions are pretty deep and profound. And I think they're worthy of us examining them and just throwing them out there. So, welcome, Kim Michaels. And let's just do a little review.

Kim Michaels:What we talked about last time was that there are various forms of theories and teachings out there that say that the world isn't real. Or, at least, not as real as we are led to believe by our senses and by our common cultural programmings, so to speak. And what I explained was that the ascended masters are teaching us that it's actually a combination of both. In the sense that, the world is real enough, in the sense that it is created by the ascended masters. But it doesn't have the ultimate reality we have been led up to believe that it has; because it is all created by the mind and by the powers of the mind. And what we have done, as human beings, is that we have been given a foundation – We were originally given a very pure and balanced planet. – And what we have done is we have co-created, based on that and based on the fact that we have descended into a lower state of consciousness. We have then, co-created all of the many limitations we see on this planet. This wasn't part of the original design.

Parthenia:OK. Go ahead.

Kim Michaels:So, what we need to do is take responsibility for our part in it so that we can start un-creating what we have created. And thereby, relatively quickly, overcome all of these limitations.

Parthenia:OK. Well, see, that sounds real simple (Kim laughs.) in theory. OK, but it looks like the fly in the ointment is the educational system that we've been under and the programming from the collective unconsciousness. Let's go back to you saying that the ascended masters created this planet. We've been taught that one being, God, created everything. And we've been disconnected from the ascended masters. Even though, Christianity teaches that Jesus rose and he's still alive. The Buddhist believe that Buddha is still alive. And I'm sure that Islam believes that Mohamed is still alive. But there's this real disconnection from ascended masters. Do you think that maybe the problem begins right there? With the fact that the dogma that we've been taught has excluded the fact that we are co-creating our reality and that there are these teachers that are here helping us to remember who we are?

Kim Michaels:I agree with you. That is the problem right there. That we don't know what's going on. And this is not necessarily – It is because there are certain people in embodiment and certain non-material forces that want to keep us trapped in the illusion. But it is also that once we go into this duality consciousness, like we talked about last time; it becomes self-reinforcing.


Kim Michaels:Because the basic idea of duality is that we see ourselves as separate beings. And everything we see through this filter of separation actually reinforces the illusion that we are separate beings. And that's why we have a planet where we think we are separate from God. Like you said, God is up there in the sky, and is this remote God.

Parthenia:And he's doing everything. We're taught that he's doing it to us. And that we're not doing it to ourselves. And so, there's no responsibility on our part for the role that we're playing in all of this.

Kim Michaels:And if there are certain things that are bad on earth; it must be because God has created them that way. Which, of course, nobody can explain why a good and benevolent God would create evil and war and all that kind of atrocities.


Kim Michaels:And so, that separates us even more from God. And then, we are separated from nature. On the planet we live on, we don't see ourselves as part of it. And then, we are separated from each other. And that's why we have all the conflict we've seen in history

Parthenia:Right. … So, let's start with clarifying some of the questions. So, one is: “Are we living in a controlled reality, while the real us is outside of this reality?” As in, what you would call, Kim, our I Am Presence being in a higher sphere. And the sphere we're referring to – A sphere would be a planet. Is that correct, Kim? When we say a sphere?

Kim Michaels:No. No. It's not a planet.

Parthenia:Sphere would be what?

Kim Michaels:What the ascended masters teach is that we live in a universe that is not yet permanent. They are saying that there have been previous universes that have ascended and become permanent and become part of what they call the spiritual realm. And we can look at it in very broad terms as a new sphere that is created, that is not yet permanent, is like a sandbox.

Parthenia:OK. Let's clarify something, 'cause I'm a little confused. When you say sphere, I think of a ball, like a planet. But when you say sphere, what are you actually referring to?

Kim Michaels:I'm referring to that our total universe is one sphere.

Parthenia:OK. It's not just planet Earth?

Kim Michaels:No. No. The entire physical universe, but also what is beyond the physical universe and what the masters call the four levels of the universe; which is the emotional, mental and identity realms, beyond the physical. So, this is the totality of the sphere we are living in. And ours is number seven in a row of these spheres. And the previous six have ascended and become permanent parts of the spiritual realm. And so, we live in sort of a new world; where nothing is permanent. It's like a sand box, where we are here to expand our consciousness; but we can't permanently hurt the sand.

Parthenia:OK. Well that's good.

Kim Michaels:I know that didn't clear up your confusion. I can hear that.

Parthenia:No. But actually it's good news that we can't permanently hurt the sand. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:Or ourselves, for that matter. Because our real beings is what the ascended masters call the I Am Presence, which many spiritual people call the spiritual self. It actually exists in the spiritual realm. So, it cannot be destroyed; or even, permanently damaged by anything we experience here on earth.

Parthenia:OK. That clarified that. ...

Kim Michaels:It could also be said to be a previous world.

Parthenia:Thank you for that. I'm going to move on into the other part of the question. So, let's go back: “Are we living in a controlled reality, while the real us is outside of it; as in our I Am Presence being in a higher sphere?” So, you just answered that. So, yes, it is. And so it can't be permanently damaged or harmed. And so, the other part of the question is: “If that's the case, how does one override the negative programs of the collective consciousness, which appears to have been corrupted by a virus, to reinstate the original program or design for this particular sphere?” Which you say is not complete. And I would agree with that, because we do appear to be affecting reality. Our thoughts and our actions. That seems pretty clear that we are co-creating reality from my perspective.

Kim Michaels:We're living in the experimental model. It's a prototype. It's not perfected, yet.

Parthenia:(Laughs.) OK. I like that.

Kim Michaels:So, the idea is that what the question calls the virus that has been introduced into the program is what the ascended masters call the duality consciousness, or the consciousness of separation. And this is the whole problem. We didn't start out seeing ourselves as separate, or disconnected beings. We actually started out having an intuitive sense of connection that we are a part of something greater. That we are not alone down here. That there is a part of us that is beyond our outer little minds down here.


Kim Michaels:And this is what many, many spiritual people, from all walks of life, even some that don't belong to any kind of spiritual teaching or movement; this is what they are beginning to awaken to and realize. I'm connected. There's more to reality. There's more to me.

Parthenia:And I think, more and more, I am seeing, in particular, young people, or people who have hit, what I would call, rock bottom. They're in, what I would call, a spiritual crisis. And they're starting to question that. That there's got to be more than just war and fighting. ...

Kim Michaels:The ascended masters teach there are basically two ways to awaken ourselves from the duality consciousness. One is, as you were saying, that people intuitively sense that there is more. There is something. It just can't be right that everything – that there isn't more to life than what we are seeing with the senses and what we are brought up to believe. And that's kind of the soft way, or the inner way. And then, the other way is what the masters call the school of hard knocks. Which is basically that you take the duality consciousness to such extremes, that you simply say: “This just does not work anymore. There's got to be more than this.”


Kim Michaels:And it really doesn't matter which way you arrive at that point. Because you have to come to that point where it's not a theory; but you are experiencing that there is something beyond what you thought was reality. And you're really connecting to it. And that's why it's not my role. And I have never seen myself as having that role that I have to convert and convince other people. Because there comes a point where people know from within.

Parthenia:I agree. Exactly.

Kim Michaels:And basically, all that I'm doing, and what the ascended master are doing through me, is putting words on what people know from within. And it may be that there is somebody else that has put words on it that resonate more with you; then that's fine. Then, you go and follow that teaching. I don't claim exclusivity, or anything like that.

Parthenia:I can really resonate with what you're saying, because the new audios that you released from Mother Mary on the real back story to war and why we've been in this perpetual state of war throughout history and what we can actually do about it – It really, really resonated with me from my own personal experience of asking these questions. And even being an English major, I loved history. So, well, we're getting ready to go into commercial break; but I want to go back into this whole discussion about experiencing things and having them resonate with us.

Kim Michaels:Sure.

Parthenia:So, you're listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I'm your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant. And I'm discussing with my co-host, Kim Michaels, how we can awaken from this illusion and take our power back. We'll be back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN after commercial break.


Parthenia:OK. We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN. And today, we're discussing how we can unplug ourselves from the Matrix, or this collective unconscious reality that we're plugged in, and discover who we truly are. Kim, we have a caller, Daniel, calling in from Montana. And he has a question for us. Daniel, are you on the line?

Daniel:Ready, willing and able.

Parthenia:Alright, Daniel, shoot.

Daniel:When the fundamentalist Christians say that people in Haiti cause their own problems with flood and famine, because of their dabbling in black magic and turning their backs on Jesus; the rank and file people of the western world cried foul. You're saying our consciousness brings fire and flood, and greed in California is causing the drought. I'm not challenging your view that our consciousness triggers natural upsets, even the recent tornadoes in Texas, for it's war-like attitude. But I am saying that this view would be a tough sell to the science-based consciousness of most people. Now, the fundamentalists have been ridiculed for saying that people bring upon themselves natural problems. How would you explain this to a world that's science-based faith that the fundamentalists failed to do?

Parthenia:OK. Daniel, that's an excellent question. ... So, I think that quantum physics can probably explain that. And, Kim, I know you're a big fan of quantum physics. So, I'm going to turn that question over to you.

Kim Michaels:I'd like to start just talking a lit bit about the fundamentalist Christians, because the problem with their mindset is that they have, very much, the – They're not part of the solution. They're part of the problem. Because they are holding on to the image of a remote, angry, judgmental God in the sky. And they're basically saying that if you don't follow the outer rules; then this God will punish you.

Parthenia:Yes. That's true. They're very punitive.

Kim Michaels:And a lot of people in the world today have already awakened from that consciousness. And they know, intuitively, that this is not right. That what the fundamentalist Christians are saying is not right, because God is not sitting up there judging and punishing us.


Kim Michaels:But what God is doing and what the ascended masters are doing is they're allowing the law of free will to work. And, as you were saying, Parthenia, they're allowing us to create what we want with energy. But the law also makes it clear that we're going to experience what we co-create.

Parthenia:Right. Because science, Daniel, says that for every cause; there is an effect. ... Kim, did you want to elaborate more on the part of his question, where he's saying: How would you explain this to the scientific community? I'm not sure that you can explain a whole lot to scientists, because they're locked into a pretty set framework.

Kim Michaels:No. I wouldn't try; because many scientists, their minds are as closed as the minds of fundamentalists Christians. And it's not my role to really try to convert any of those two extremist groups. It's not really my role to convert anybody. But people who have started to awaken, they sense intuitively that there is something beyond both fundamentalist science and fundamentalist Christianity.

Parthenia:Right. And I think there's a better chance in dealing with the scientists that have moved into quantum physics and the realm of unlimited possibilities, because they understand that we do affect matter. So, Daniel, is any of that making sense?

Daniel:Oh yeah, yeah. I'm on your wavelength. …

Parthenia:… We'll be back with more about how we can unplug from the matrix and co-create a better reality. ...


Parthenia:OK. We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk, discussing the matrix and how we can unplug ourselves from this illusion and co-create a better reality than the one that we are currently participating in. So, Kim, another part of the series of questions from Australia have to do with the fallen beings, who she says appear to be more aware of the setup or program on this sphere. And, as such, they have the upper hand; in that, they know the parameters. And, as such, they can more easily work within this framework and utilize those parameters to manipulate those who are still asleep. And keep them asleep, while controlling those who do wake up, to prevent them from really knowing who they truly are and their real power. ...

Kim Michaels:Well, yes. It's true. You have a basic choice when you look at the world and you look at history. The question is: “How do you explain evil?” Because it has traditionally, by philosophers, been called one of the central human questions. And if we go back to our previous discussion, the fundamentalist Christians can't really explain it; other than to say that God must have created it or allowed it to be created.

Parthenia:Which makes no sense.

Kim Michaels:Which, of course, intuitively, many people know cannot be true. And so, the other option is the materialistic scientists, who really, really have no explanation; other than: “Well, is it survival of the fittest?” And the evil people are the most fit, because they are the most aggressive? You end up into all these philosophical blind alleys.

Parthenia:Or the denial that evil doesn't exist, which is really, really crazy. Because you have a lot of people who are on a metaphysical or spiritual path, who just are in complete denial about evil. Everything is all good. And all you've gotta do is pray and believe in love and you can just make all of this vanish.

Kim Michaels:And so, what the ascended masters teach is that after the earth started descending into the duality consciousness; there were certain beings that were allowed to incarnate on earth. And they had already gone very deep into the duality consciousness. And therefore, they have been manipulating human beings ever since they came here. And they are the ones who brought the whole concept of war to this planet and taught human beings how to make war. And they're still here, because the ascended masters say they are allowed to be here because they function as kind of substitute teacher.

Parthenia:Um-hum. The hard knocks school, right?

Kim Michaels:Yes. So, it's simply a matter of how hard do the knocks have to become. And by these manipulators being here, the knocks become harder and harder and harder. And as long as people will not wake up and use their intuitive faculties to contact their higher self and the ascended masters; well, then, the power elite will be allowed to be here.

Parthenia:And you know, Kim, I keep looking at this. And the place I've gotten to is that on an intuitive level we know that we're born free and there's this drive within us not to be controlled, to resist any kind of attempt to control us. But then, there's this other side where people don't want responsibility and they want to be taken care of. So, you've got this dichotomy that's at odds with each other. And you can't be free and yet, allow yourself to be ruled by politicians or governmental agencies, who regulate and control every single thing that you can and can't do; and still be free. So, I think people are going to have to make a decision that either I'm sovereign or I'm not.

Kim Michaels:That's very, very true. There comes a point when you start to awaken where you have to realize that: “Yes, there is a power elite. And yes, they know a lot more about how the world works than the average person. And that is why they can manipulate and control us.” And they are ruthlessly using their knowledge. And they are ruthlessly trying to keep us in ignorance by doing, as you said, suppressing the truth, and suppressing anybody who tries to bring out the truth. But the fact is, we have to realize that they are here because we haven't been willing to take responsibility for our own decisions. It's almost like we are saying: “We want somebody else to make decisions for us.”

Parthenia:I agree. “You know better than us how to handle our problems for us.” And I think it's really coming to a head. ... So, I agree with what you're saying, Kim, that sometimes the situation has to get really, really bad before people just decide: “Now, wait a minute. Enough, already. Just no. I'm not going to do that.”

Kim Michaels:That's very true. I mean, sometimes we have to be pushed against the wall to stand up to this. And I actually believe that women are probably going to be the first ones to do it in this age.

Parthenia:(Laughs.) It's looking like that. Women are like tigresses. ... That mothers are pretty mad right now. And they're going to figure it out. And I agree with you. I think it's going to be mother's fighting for their children.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. Definitely.

Parthenia:So, I don't think that that's a bad thing that the whole issue is free will. And people don't want to look at the fact that: “OK. We have free will.” And because we have free will, you can't cop out and blame God for everything when God gave you the right to choose to be a slave or to choose to be free, to give your power away or to exercise your power. And it's not that difficult to look at free will and see that it is a double-edged sword, but you don't have to cut yourself in half with it.

Kim Michaels:That's very true. I mean, the wonderful thing about it is that as long as you don't realize the role of consciousness and free will; you will feel dis-empowered.


Kim Michaels:But when you do, when you get over this hump; you realize that recognizing the role of free will is the ultimate empowerment. Because anything we have chosen to create, we can choose to un-create.

Parthenia:I agree 100%. And I think that's the other part of the question: “Are we here to clean up this negative virus, to unplug from the matrix, and become one with the Father, like Christ did?” I know my answer to that. But I think she wants to know: “How do we do this with all the negative interference programs?” And that's what I've been struggling with, I think, my whole life. And coming into an awareness that we do have assistance from above, that the ascended masters are there. And that we don't have to do this all by ourselves. I think that has probably been the most comforting aspect of your teachings. And the information that I've gotten from your books, Kim, is that I don't have to do this all alone and that I'm not in this all alone.

Kim Michaels:Yes. And that is what happens when you awaken. The problem is separation, the illusion that we're separated. When you awaken from separation, you realize you're not alone. You are a co-creator. That means there is a greater being who is creating with you.


Kim Michaels:And it's perfectly true, as it was said in the question. We are here to help awaken from this virus and the collective consciousness. And there are millions of people who have taken embodiment, knowing before they came here, that the earth is at a cross-roads, the earth is in a transition period. And they have volunteered to come here, specifically to accelerate that awakening.

Parthenia:That is good news.

Kim Michaels:And it's really a matter of reconnecting to that. And that's why I'm saying you cannot convince somebody of this, if they're not ready to see it.

Parthenia:I agree.

Kim Michaels:But if people are beginning to awaken and they know there is something they can know inside themselves that's real; then you can very quickly help people put words on it and expand their understanding so they begin to see: “Aha. Now, I know why I'm here. I know what my mission is, what my role is. I know what the issue is that I came here to help awaken people to.”

Parthenia:Right. And I think if we stay in this framework of – And this is the other part of the question. How can we interfere with the program of the power elite? ... How do we, on a day to day basis, deal with all of this without just going into despair?

Kim Michaels:The one dollar answer to the million dollar question (Parthenia laughs.) is that various spiritual teachers that we know physically have been used by the ascended masters to give us a variety of versions of the same path, a spiritual path that leads to a higher state of consciousness. When you follow that, as an individual; you will begin to awaken yourself from the collective illusion. And there is nothing, as long as you are in reasonable mental and physical health; there is really nothing that can stop you from walking that spiritual path. I realize it's very different if you are a child who has had autism artificially brought upon you or you have other handicaps like that. But for most people, there is really nothing; because the power of the mind is greater than the power of the body. And that's what we need to start realizing.

Parthenia:And I think that those are the teachings that we've got to wrap ourselves in. We've got to wrap ourselves in the truth and know that there are higher truths than the ones that we've allowed into our consciousness. And the thing that has helped me the most with the teachings from your website ( is that we can – If we're in this place of fear, we are powerless. And that really, we can – There are a lot of tools on your website and we can use those tools. And even though, I think the biggest problem most of us have is we don't like the fact that we have to do something every day, like invoking spiritual protection. But the way that I've gotten used to it is: “Well, I got used to the fact that I had to brush my teeth every day when I was kid.”

Kim Michaels:Or wash your body. So, why not wash your energy body?

Parthenia:Exactly. …

Kim Michaels:But you see, once you start recognizing that there is a power elite that's manipulating and misleading people; then you have to realize that they're not stupid and they are ahead of most people.

Parthenia:They are.

Kim Michaels:So, they see that right now there are a lot of people that are starting to awaken. And what do they do? They attempt to counteract it, not by necessarily denying that you awaken; but by giving you a false path, which is what you say, the easy road, the easy way out. Let's find the magic pill so we can suddenly wake up to have Christ consciousness. Well, there weren't any pills around when Jesus demonstrated how to manifest Christ consciousness. (Parthenia laughs.) He walked a path, regardless of what Christianity portrays. He walked a systematic spiritual path. He was not born in the fullness of his Christhood. He attained it through a path that we too can follow.

Parthenia:Exactly! So, after commercial break, we want to leave the audience with some of the things that you can do to empower yourself. ...


Parthenia:OK. We’re back wrapping this up on CRN, discussing how you can unplug from the matrix and co-create a new reality for yourself and for those around you that would ultimately ripple out and affect the entire planet for the better. So, Kim, I wanted to leave the audience with some empowering ideas and thoughts and tools that they can use on the spiritual path to create a new reality. ... And so, I think the most powerful thing we can do is to be like little children and be in questioning. And be in wonder. And be in awe. And knowing that if you can ask the question; then there is an answer and it will come. So, keep questioning. So, Kim, I'm turning it over to you.

Kim Michaels:And that's a very, very good point. I totally agree with you. We have to keep that beginner's mind, as the Zen Buddhist say, or as Jesus said, unless you become as little children. And that is important. It doesn't mean you can't find a teaching that works for you, if you keep using it to transcend your consciousness. It's when people take a teaching and then they say: “Oh, I just have to do these outer things and I'll be OK in the end.” That's when they go into a blind alley. And you can do that with just about any teaching, if you put your mind to it, so to speak.


Kim Michaels:But what I would like to say is that, in order to simplify this – If there are new listeners and it resonates with them that you can awaken from the matrix; I have a book called, How You Can Help Change the World. How you can help change the world. (Browse Kim's store.)

Parthenia:I like that.

Kim Michaels:And that explains the basic dynamic that we've been talking about in this show of how people can actually reconnect to the reason they came into embodiment, their divine plan, and start that spiritual mission. So, that's a very good place to start to get an overview.


Kim Michaels:And then, of course, I have another book. If you are interested in the topic of the power elite; then I have a book called Cosmology of Evil.

Parthenia:That's fascinating stuff. Yeah.

Kim Michaels:And that book explains, from the beginning, the origin of the power elite and the methods they're using on earth to manipulate and deceive us. So, that's also a good place to liberate yourself from this manipulation.


Kim Michaels:And then, of course, we have all of the toolson transcendencetoolboxthat are just there for free. We have all of the teachings on my other websites. has a lot of teachings.

Parthenia:Yes. And the more you know, the less fearful you are and the more powerful you can become. So, thank you for listening and we will be back next week with more of Divine Love Talk. And, Kim, I'd like to begin discussing the new book on war, next week.

Kim Michaels:OK.

Parthenia:So, we'll see you guys next week on Divine Love Talk. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, with my co-host, Kim Michaels. Thank you, Kim.

Kim Michaels:Thank you.



Copyright © 2015 Kim Michaels


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