Are we living in a Matrix? Part 1


May 4, 2015 Divine Love Talk

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Topics: Are we living in a matrix type simulation?

Parthenia:Alright. I’m so excited to be back here today to share with the audience some questions that were carefully crafted by some of our listeners who are researching and pondering and thinking about the possibility that we might all be plugged into a matrix or be part of a simulation program. Science has discovered that nature has exact codes that are duplicated in what are called fractals and they’re duplicated over and over. So, Kim Michaels, who is our resident expert on spirituality. He and I will be discussing my favorite movie, The Matrix, which is based on Plato’s Allegory of the Cave and what the real possibilities are of this being actual possibility from a spiritual standpoint. So, welcome, Kim Michaels.

Kim Michaels:Thanks. I’m here now.

Parthenia:Ah. Here we go. I can hear you now. OK. So, Kim, thank you so much for being willing to answer these questions. They’re pretty deep and very complex. And I think that they’re relevant in the fact that people are thinking about them and asking the questions. I think they deserve our consideration.

Kim Michaels:Sure.

Parthenia: So, I’ll let you start off the discussion.

Kim Michaels:I think the first thing we need to make clear here is that this is potentially a very, very confusing topic.

Parthenia:I know. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:And in my opinion, the first thing we need to realize is that there are some people who are in a state of consciousness where they want clear cut yes and no answers about everything.


Kim Michaels:And so, if you ask the question: Are we in a simulation? Give me a yes or no answer. I would have to say I can’t give you a yes or no answer to that question. 


Kim Michaels:Because it’s more complex than that.

Parthenia:OK. Fair enough.

Kim Michaels:So, the next thing is that the intellect cannot resolve this question. Because I have read some of the arguments and I can’t even deal with them, myself.


Kim Michaels:My brain starts frying when I read the way people think about this. And I can quickly see that it’s simply the intellect that is arguing circles around itself. And that’s what the intellect can do. It can come with an argument, but it can also come up with a counter-argument. And you can never really get out of that.


Kim Michaels:So, I think the only thing that can really resolve this and help you deal with this in a good way is if you had spiritual, mystical, transcendental experiences. You’ve experienced a state of consciousness that you know is real, but it’s not your normal state of consciousness.

Parthenia:Right. And I have had that, so it allows me to contemplate the possibility that there is way more than just these five senses.

Kim Michaels:Yes. And I think that gives you then a foundation for going into it where you might, hopefully, avoid being completely confused.

Parthenia:Alright. That was a great opening. Not a disclaimer, but just putting it out there so that we have sort of a level playing field to start from.

Kim Michaels:Yes. Because you can very quickly see on different discussion forums or websites that people find this very confusing and how they can argue back and forth without really coming to a conclusive conclusion, so to speak.

Parthenia:Right. OK. But, you do hear in almost all of the current or mystical or new age thought this whole concept of illusion versus reality. All of this sort of hit me — And I think I pointed this out once before. — When my daughter was three years old, she woke up, hit the floor crying and ran into my room and said: “Mommy, none of this is real. It’s all a dream.” And, of course, this is a long time ago. I hadn’t read Plato’s Allegory of the Cave and The Matrix hadn’t come out.

Kim Michaels:Right.

Parthenia:So, I said: “No, no, sweetheart. It’s all real.” And she was really, really upset and she said: “No! It’s all a dream. None of this is real.” And she was convinced and she held onto that conviction until The Matrix came out and she was a teenager. And she said: “See. I told you.” And by the time she was 13, she was in college and she was taking philosophy. And in the philosophy class then she had to study Plato’s Allegory of the Cave. And then, she came home and she said: “Look, this is what Plato was talking about. So this is not real.” There’s some logical arguments in favor of the fact that we are being manipulated, that somebody’s manipulating us into thinking that this is all there is.

Kim Michaels:Well, yes. I mean, you can go back to the Buddha, 2500 years ago and he talked about the world as Maya or illusion.

Parthenia:Yes. Yes.

Kim Michaels:And so, there was Plato and, of course, many philosophers who have thought along the same lines. But I think the first thing we need to discuss is: What do we mean when we say something is real?


Kim Michaels:I don’t know if you have a thought about that.

Parthenia:Well, OK. That’s where I needed your help, because I think that with us being limited. If you limit everything to our five senses, then we would say: “Well, only what we can see, hear, taste and touch are real.” But, I know that that’s not true, that there’s a lot more that’s going on beyond the five senses. So, I think if we were going to come up with a definition of what’s real, the average people would say: “If I can see it, taste it, touch it, or feel it; then it’s real and everything that’s beyond the five senses would not be real to them.” So would that be a fair place to say that there’s where most people begin?

Kim Michaels:Yeah. That’s a place to begin. And I would agree with you that what we see with the five senses is not REAL in an ultimate sense.


Kim Michaels:But, I would also have to say it doesn’t mean there’s nothing.

Parthenia:Beyond that?

Kim Michaels:Yeah. And that’s there’s nothing that’s real.

Parthenia:Oh, at all.

Kim Michaels:It depends. Many years ago I was in the science museum in Seattle and they had a child who was wearing these virtual reality goggles. They become a lot better, but back then it was a very primitive version. And so, the kid was up on the stage wearing these goggles and he was only seeing what was projected inside the goggles. And we could see on a big screen what he was seeing. But, of course, we could also see him walking around on the stage. So, in that respect I would say: “Yes, what he was seeing was unreal. It was a dream. It was an illusion. It was a simulation.”


Kim Michaels:But, we were outside.


Kim Michaels:So, compared to what he was seeing, there was a real world outside of what he was seeing.


Kim Michaels:And so, the way I would look at it from an ascended master perspective is that — You know that there are some that argue that we have created the entire universe. And if we awaken from this dream, the universe will disappear.

Parthenia:I’ve heard that one. I’ve heard that one. And the Toltecs — Go ahead.

Kim Michaels:That one I don’t agree with, because we haven’t created the world, the universe. The ascended masters have.

Parthenia:I agree. That’s sort of narcissistic perspective, that we’re holding the whole universe together. And I’ve always believed that there was something bigger than us that created this.

Kim Michaels:And that’s why I mean you need to have this mystical experience, because then you have experienced a reality that is beyond your own mind. And that’s why you don’t fall into this trap of thinking that your mind has created everything. You realize there is a mind outside of yourself that has created a world and you are living in it and you are interacting with it.


Kim Michaels:So, the reason why this is important is that in philosophy, for example, you have philosophers that talk about something that can get you into regress, where you can keep arguing around the same thing forever without really reaching anything ultimate. So, if you go into the idea that our minds have created everything; where do you end up?


Kim Michaels:It’ll put you in a straight jacket.

Parthenia:(Laughter.) Exactly.

Kim Michaels:You can literally argue circles around your own mind. And so, in way we can cut through this and say: “If we really were living in a simulation, how could we even ask the question?”

Parthenia:That’s true; because the simulation probably would not allow for the person who is being manipulated to question the simulation.

Kim Michaels:Right. If you are sitting on a computer playing a computer game with Lara Croft running around shooting bad guys in a dungeon, is she going to be able to ask: Oh, am I a simulation? It makes sense, right? Absolutely not.

Parthenia:I agree.

Kim Michaels:So, if we were completely artificial creations, we couldn’t ask the question. The reason we can ask the question is that we are not created in a simulation. We are created as real beings. But, what we have done is we have entered into the physical body in the lower mind that is very tied to the senses; but also, to the logic, rational mind. And here is the trick. What we are seeing from inside of that body mind is a dream, is unreal. It could be said to be a simulation.


Kim Michaels:But, instead of saying it’s a simulation; I would, actually, argue that it is something that we are partially creating ourselves.

Parthenia:We are influencing it, because we have free will. And I’ve been struggling for quite some time about the whole issue of free will within a world where everybody else has free will. And then, you hear a lot of people in the new age movement say: “Well, just set your intention and then you can create whatever it is that you want to create.” And there is part of that that I understand about setting your intention. But, you have all of these other factors of other people’s free will that you can’t interfere with and that you can’t control. So, it could drive you crazy; if you think that you could just set your intention and control everything that happens.

Kim Michaels:It’s a totally narcissistic argument; because it presumes that you are the only being in the world who can set your intention. And the whole world revolves around you and then the rest of the universe is just going to fall into place and manifest what you want to manifest. And there are people who argue like that. I know that.

Parthenia:I know.

Kim Michaels:I just feel that that defies just common experience. These people, apparently, have never had children. (Both laughing.) Because then you’d know people will not do what you want them to do all the time. But I wanted to just return back to what I said before, before we go too much into the free will thing.


Kim Michaels:The science of quantum physics has actually discovered what I was talking about. It used to be that scientists were thinking that if a scientist is outside of the phenomenon he is observing, he is just an objective, neutral observer. He’s not influencing what he is seeing. But what quantum physicists discovered was that — certainly at the level of quantum particles, but everything is made out of quantum particles. So, it really applies to everything. What you are seeing is not what is actually there outside of your mind. What you are seeing is something you are co-creating when your mind is interacting with the reality that is outside the mind. They’re not saying there is no reality outside the mind. They’re just saying you can’t see it without the glasses you have on and the glasses will affect what you’re seeing. And that’s why you could argue that everything is a dream and we have co-created it.

Parthenia: OK. So, let’s pick up with that after commercial break. We’re going to go further down the rabbit hole on this one. Thank you for joining us on Divine Love Talk. I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant. And joining me is my co-host, Kim Michaels. We’re discussing illusion versus reality and whether this is a matrix or a simulated program. We’ll be right back with more after commercial break. 


Parthenia:OK. We’re back with our discussion on whether we are plugged into a matrix that might be a simulation program and how we can possibly deal with this conundrum related to philosophy. So, Kim, would you complete your end thought before we went to commercial break? 

Kim Michaels:Yeah. The basic idea was that what we see is not the real world, as it is. We see it through a filter and the filter affects what we’re seeing. And so, that’s why you could argue that it’s a dream that we have partially created ourselves. You could also argue it’s just a simulation, because what we are seeing inside our minds is not the real world as it is. Or it’s the real world. We’re just seeing a distorted version of it, just like if you were wearing colored glasses.

Parthenia:OK. So, could you elaborate on that in terms of us seeing a distorted version of it? Because the Toltec philosophy is that we are dreaming up our reality as we go. And free will is in alignment with the fact that we do get to believe or think whatever it is that we want to think into reality and there is this collective consciousness of thought.

Kim Michaels:The way I would approach that is I would say that you’re going through life and you’re having different experiences in life. And, of course, you’re not the only person on earth. You’re interacting with other people. So, here you have, for example, you and your parents and there is a situation where you are sitting around the dinner table. And so, this is not something you have entirely created in your own mind; because these other people are there and they also have their minds and their free will. But, the reality is that each of the three people sitting at the dinner table are having their own inner experience of that situation.

Parthenia:For sure.

Kim Michaels:So, what you are dreaming up is your life experience. It’s what is happening inside of your mind. And, of course, the other people that you interact with, they have their own life experience. So, yes, it’s true, you are creating your particular life experience and it is a creation that involves both the outer situation you are in; but, first of all, how you see it, how you experience that situation.


Kim Michaels:And so, what we can do to awaken ourselves from the dream or the matrix is we can look at what the Buddha called your perception filter. How is my mind affecting what I’m seeing? And is there a way to experience the world that isn’t colored by this outer mind?

Parthenia:Well, that’s fascinating. So, I’d love the answer to that. How can we see the world without the perception filter?

Kim Michaels:The Buddha’s answer was the 8-fold path, which was the path that he defined, based on his philosophy and his world view. Jesus’ answer was the path to personal Christhood, which unfortunately was lost when the Roman Catholic Church turned Christianity into something different than Jesus envisioned. But, you also find it today in many mystical teachings. And, of course, the ascended masters have presented the path through me and other messengers. So, there’s a systematic, gradual path. It isn’t something you can do in an instant.


Kim Michaels:And that’s where we might as well get that out of the way, because we’re so programmed in our culture. We want instant gratification. And I think, actually, if you go back and look at Plato’s Allegory of the Cave; you can see that Plato’s allegory was very much affected by his time.


Kim Michaels:But, he’s essentially saying some of the same things as were said, for example, in The Matrix. It’s just that now in today’s age we are so programmed with technology that everybody thinks that if we are living in a dream world; it must be some computer simulation or some technological device that has created it. And the problem with that thinking is that then we also think: If we can just find the switch we can turn off the simulation in an instant.

Parthenia:(Laughter.) Right. Or re-write the program.

Kim Michaels:Yes. You can mechanically do it. You think there is a mechanical solution. And that’s where it gets dangerous to go into these arguments; because it takes you away from the reality of the spiritual path. Because nothing has fundamentally changed just because we have changed our vocabulary and are thinking more in technological terms.

Parthenia:Kim, hold on to that, because I want to pick that up when we come back after commercial break. Because Plato was relevant. You’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I’m discussing whether we’re in a simulated reality or the matrix with my co-host, Kim Michaels. We’ll be back with more after commercial break on CRN. You’re listening to Divine Love Talk with Dr. Parthenia Grant. 


Parthenia:OK. We’re back with Divine Love Talk where Kim Michaels and I are discussing the possibility that we might be part of being plugged into the matrix or a simulation program. And when we left off; Kim had mentioned Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, which is quite relevant today in the sense that he pointed out that we were being manipulated by — that we were like puppets who were being manipulated by puppet masters and only allowed to experience and see what the puppet masters want us to see, which is a very limited and very controlled reality. And in his story, it was about one person breaking free of this cave that he had been in his whole life and seeing the real world full of color. But, then once he came into the cave and experienced this alternate reality and started sharing it with the other people in the cave; they were so attached to that alternate reality that they literally wanted to kill him. They didn’t want to hear about something that was different than what they already experienced. And so, I find that very, very relevant to today when you try to introduce new concepts or ideas that our outside of the mainstream or that are outside of the box; for instance, if you’ve had some type of mystical experience or inner revelation or knowing, and you try to wake up people that are still plugged into the matrix or still inside of the cave. …

Kim Michaels:I’m back now.

Parthenia:Alright. So Kim, let’s pick up where you left off. … So, I think it’s very, very clear that we are being manipulated in this reality.

Kim Michaels:But, by whom?

Parthenia:I would call it the power elite, the corporations that have an agenda. But, you would probably call it the dark forces, I’m not sure.

Kim Michaels:Yes, but I want to make something clear before we go into that. There is an overall level that is beyond any kind of manipulation.

Parthenia:OK. That’s good to hear.

Kim Michaels:There was an original world. Let’s just focus on the earth. The earth was originally created by the seven Elohim, which is seven ascended masters. And it was created in a much purer and more balanced state than it is today. Then, human beings were created, spiritual beings were created, who descended and took on human bodies. And this was done — You asked at one point: What’s the overall purpose of the whole thing? And it is to helps us raise our consciousness. We grow. We start out as co-creators, but we have a relatively limited sense of what we can do and what we can’t do and what our abilities are.

Parthenia:That’s true.

Kim Michaels:And so, it’s just like children. You don’t send them out to do something dangerous. You limit them to a sand box where they can’t really hurt themselves and they can’t hurt the sand. And so, we started out in a very balanced, very ideal world. But, we were also given free will. So, we could two things. We could either go up and multiply the talents we had been given and create a more beautiful earth; or we could go into what I call the duality consciousness and then start becoming more selfish and self-centered. And that is what the majority of the people on this planet did. And that’s why we have gone to a much lower level that we see today, than what was originally created.

Parthenia:So, the duality consciousness is what has led to the master-slave dichotomy that we see on the planet and the masters being them and us being the puppets.

Kim Michaels:But, you have to realize that even though the earth was created in a pure state; it was also set up to give us any experience we want. And when you go into the duality consciousness; that’s when you see yourself as a separate being. You ae separated from your source. You are separated from other people. And that’s when you can have this idea that some people, not only are different from others; but they are better than others. Some people are the leaders, some the followers, some are the masters, some are the slaves. But, see we were not manipulated or forced to go into that state. We chose.

Parthenia:So, alright. I get that.

Kim Michaels:So, we chose to enter a state of consciousness where we want to have two opponents. So, if we choose we want to be a slave; we need to have a master who can manipulate us, which is something we’ve chosen. And the reason why I’m saying that is that the only way to get out of it is that we must choose. You go back to Plato. What did Plato write most about? He wrote about Socrates. And what did Socrates do? He went around Athens and questioned everybody’s preconceived opinions and beliefs. Everything that people took for granted, Socrates would question it.


Kim Michaels:And that’s what all spiritual people do. And that is the essence of awakening from the illusion is you question everything you take for granted.

Parthenia:OK. So, it’s a good thing that we are coming up with these questions, our listeners are coming up with these questions. 

Kim Michaels:Sure.

Parthenia:And so, you’re that we choose this. And so, now, I don’t like this reality that we have. I don’t like the government forcing us to inject toxins and poisons into our body. And I don’t like this feeling of being overwhelmed by all of it. So, how do we choose to move out of duality? Once you have realized: Oh, wow this is really no fun, this whole duality game. I don’t like this game anymore.

Kim Michaels:Right. There’s two aspects of that, your individual experience and then the fact that you are on a planet with 7 billion other people who haven’t reached the same level and haven’t decided, like you have, that they have had enough of it.

Parthenia:So, I’m stuck with all the rest of the people that want to keep playing this game?

Kim Michaels:No! What you can do is you can focus on yourself and your own state of consciousness, your own development. You can focus on taking command over what is your responsibility, your own mind. But, what you also have to do in order to really take command of your own mind; you have to stop trying to take command of the mind of everybody else.

Parthenia:That’s a dichotomy, in and of itself.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. And it’s very hard to do. Because when you’re in this consciousness of thinking the government is out to get you; you can’t really free yourself.

Parthenia:Right. But, the reality is I walk out and I look at the sky and they’re spraying poison in the sky. And so I can’t say that -

Kim Michaels:What did we just talk about about your perception filter?


Kim Michaels:Yes, there is a reality and there are other people who are in a lower state of consciousness who are doing certain things. That’s true. But, the question is: Do you want to be free by trying to change them or by trying to change yourself?

Parthenia:OK. So how do we — So then, let’s just deal with that dichotomy of: Yes, I want to be free. I’m real clear. I can’t change other people. But, I still don’t — I’m not comfortable with the fact that other people, so many of them, are forcing their will on me. So how do we find that balance?

Kim Michaels:But, how can they force their will on you when you have complete free will?

Parthenia:Well, if it’s complete, then I wouldn’t be breathing this poison air and struggling so hard to just find a -

Kim Michaels:No. If you mind was completely free and you were in control of your own mind; it wouldn’t bother you that you were breathing this air.


Kim Michaels:Because you would accept two things. Number one, you can live a life on this planet where you’re not bothered by the current conditions. And number two, current conditions are an expression, not only of your state of consciousness, but of the collective.


Kim Michaels:And you can’t change the collective overnight. But, what you can do is free yourself completely from the collective consciousness, and thereby, you will pull everybody else up.

Parthenia:I get that.

Kim Michaels:You also get to a point where whatever these other people are doing is not ruining your life experience.

Parthenia:Well, then, I’m not there, yet.

Kim Michaels:Right. Because you are still struggling against somebody. And it’s not that we should be passive and not say anything.

Parthenia:Yeah. See. That’s the fine line.

Kim Michaels:But, the balance is that we can do it. We can’t solve the problem created by duality, if we’re still in duality. We can’t do it by struggling against others. We can still do what Socrates did. Socrates didn’t go in and argue with anybody. Jesus didn’t either. The Buddha didn’t either. They asked questions and gave teachings so that those who were willing and ready could question their reality.

Parthenia:OK. Fair enough.

Kim Michaels:They left the others to do what they wanted. And Jesus even went to the extreme of letting them kill him, because that was what they wanted. I’m not saying we should all do that, because times have changed. But, nevertheless, we have to let other people do what they want to do and then we speak out. We speak our truth, our experience. But, we don’t it in this way that there’s somebody out to get us and they have power over us. Because, as long as you think the government has power over you, it has power over you.

Parthenia:OK. So then, give me a more concrete example. So, how would you do it? You said you ask questions. OK, but, at the same time, you can’t deny the reality of what’s actually happening and pretend that it isn’t happening. There’s certain issues that DO need to be addressed. And so how do we address them beyond the duality consciousness?

Kim Michaels:The question for you is you want to be free.


Kim Michaels:Where is your freedom going to take place? Inside your mind or outside your mind?

Parthenia:Inside. Absolutely.

Kim Michaels:OK. So why are you worried what’s going on outside your mind? Why are you thinking that you have to accomplish something outside your mind before you can be free inside your mind?

Parthenia:Well, then, that’s probably the stuck point.

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:Because, I’m thinking I have this physical existence and then, I also have the existence that’s inside of my mind. And maybe I’m tackling it from the wrong direction.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. That’s what I’m trying to say. You are trapped because you’re inside this perception filter level of duality. And when you step into duality, you’re always projecting that there is an opponent outside of yourself that has power over you.


Kim Michaels:And so you can never be free of that opponent as long as you are inside that perception filter. So, what I’m saying is that you have to get to a point by questioning what you take for granted — You have to get to a point where you realize there is no opponent. You realize it has no power over you. There’s no influence on your life experience.


Kim Michaels:This is what the Buddha called being non-attached. And once you attain this non-attachment, then you can do what Socrates did. He went out and questioned everybody’s illusions without ever attached to it or involved in it. He didn’t fight it. He just questioned it.

Parthenia:Alright. OK. I can feel that. Eric, are you following this logic?

Eric: Yeah. I’m following it. I got my running shoes on though.

(All laugh.)

Kim Michaels:It takes a little getting used to, I admit.

Parthenia:But, Eric, don’t you think that is very challenging?

Eric: Absolutely.

Parthenia:To actually move into this place where we know something has to be done. And Kim I totally get what you’re saying about the fact that we’ve got to be — We speak out, but in a very non-attached way. And I think I’ve made a lot of progress in that area.

Kim Michaels:Yes. Certainly.

Parthenia:Oh, wow! OK. So, we ARE going to have to continue this discussion next week. We didn’t even get half way through it. You’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant. I’m talking with my co-host, Kim Michaels, about getting through this duality consciousness and illusion versus reality. You’re listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN with Dr. Parthenia Grant. We’ll be right back, wrapping this up, after commercial break. 


Parthenia:OK. We’re back, wrapping this up with Divine Love Talk. And Kim, I want to very quickly summarize what I think that you were saying to me. I get that we have to take our power back from within. And that as we deal with the issues on the outside that are affecting everybody, that we have to deal with it from a position of our own inner strength and our own inner power and not feeling like a victim, which is going into duality consciousness. So, you’re not saying be passive. You’re saying address the issues, but address them from a higher perspective. Am I getting it?

Kim Michaels:Yes. The Buddha talked about the Middle Way. I don’t think it’s a full translation of what he originally intended. I think something has been lost in translation. Because, for a lot of people it sounds like it’s just a compromise between two extremes. And there are some Buddhists that have taken that to mean that you should just sit and meditate.

Parthenia:And do nothing.

Kim Michaels:But, the Buddha was not passive. He just wasn’t fighting. He wasn’t struggling. And what he said was, if you want to know the truth, was that life is suffering. But life is suffering, because you are in the duality consciousness. And so, what you need to do is stop trying to solve the problems from that level of consciousness. And then, once you have freed — You focus first on freeing yourself from duality. And then, once you have started to do that, then you can address the problem in an entirely different way.

Parthenia:Got it.

Kim Michaels:And you are not passive. You are actually doing the most effective thing. But, it’s just that, the thing is — Socrates, for example — he was asking questions to awaken people. He was not trying to manipulate or force them into changing.

Parthenia:Right. That doesn’t work.

Kim Michaels:So, there has to be total respect for free will. And you have to respect that, yeah, maybe there is a government that’s too dictatorial. Maybe there’s a power elite. But, that’s because there’s still a majority of the people on this planet who want that experience.

Parthenia:Well, that is quite unfortunate. The good news, Eric, you were pointing out is that people are waking up. And how would you –

Eric: Yeah. Definitely. I think that my generation and, of course, my father’s generation, starting in the sixties — They had a different way of approaching this problem that we’re all facing now. And one thing that my grandmother always told me. She says: If you get right within, you’ll be fine without.

Parthenia:That matches what you were saying, Kim.

Kim Michaels:Yeah, it does. Yeah. The other day I was hearing a lecture where somebody talked about this old Donovan song, Universal Soldier. And the idea was that it was the soldiers that were to blame for the war.

Parthenia:Yeah. Because if they gave a war and nobody came, then we couldn’t have a war.

Kim Michaels:And it’s not a bad argument at a certain level. But, on the other hand, if you go to a deeper level you would realize that you’re still blaming somebody else. You’re trying to change somebody else, instead of trying to change yourself.

Parthenia:Well, true!

Kim Michaels:As long as you are trying to change somebody else, YOU will not be free from duality.

Parthenia:OK. I got it. And I do appreciate that. And it, also, occurred to me that we really don’t have to go along with these mandates, with these forced mandates that the government is implementing. So, that’s where our real power is is in saying -

Kim Michaels:We can go along in the physical and transcend them in consciousness.

Parthenia:OK. So, we ARE going to have to talk more about this next week on Divine Love Talk on how we can actually transcend them in consciousness. So, thank you guys for listening. Thank you, Kim, for taking the time to cover this. 

Kim Michaels:Thank you.

Parthenia:We will be back next week with more of Divine Love Talk on CRN. I’m your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, talking with my co-host, Kim Michaels.



Copyright © 2015 Kim Michaels


My Lives with Lucifer, Satan, Hitler and Jesus

September 25-th 2017
My latest book is truly the most special one I have published:   Through an engaging personal story, this book manages to question all of the paradigms upon which our civilization is built while...

Another conference for 2017

July 20-th 2017
We are happy to announce a new conference that will take place in Estonia this coming December:   Healing the individual and collective psyche in Eastern Europe   International conference with the ascended...

NEW BOOK about stopping poverty

October 21-st 2016
Help Saint Germain Stop Poverty If you are concerned about the issue of poverty and open to a spiritual solution, this book gives you powerful knowledge and practical tools for making an effort to...

NEW BOOK about the initiations of purity

October 21-st 2016
The Mystical Initiations of Intention Learn how to purify your intentions from fear and discover your original motivation for coming...
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