The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem, Part 1

September 16, 2013 Divine Love Talk

Guests: Vanessa Benjamin and Kim Michaels.

Topic: The book The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem by Kim Michaels.


Parthenia: Welcome back to Divine Love Talk.  Today, I’m so excited to announce the new book by my co-host Kim Michaels, called The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  And I’m also very happy to have my intern here, Vanessa Benjamin.  She and I, both, went over the book this weekend.  And Venessa, you texted me.  And what did you think about the book for young people?

Vanessa:  It’s transformational.  

Parthenia: And what did you think in terms of sharing it with other young people?

Vanessa:  I thought that this should be mandatory literature.  I mean for people who are teens or young adults; because it helps you not waste your life on fruitless endeavors.

Parthenia: We have a lot of that.  So, Kim, I am so grateful to you for the huge body of work that you manage to put out.  I don’t know how you do this.  But, I think that this is one of the most important books right now to help lift the entire planet out of this morass of depression and anxiety and panic and popping pills and STRESS.  I mean that’s like the biggest problem that everyone is encountering.  I know that I’m dealing with a lot of it that is work related.  So, I think that this is one of the panaceas, Kim, for helping people find their way out of the darkness and into the light.  So, welcome, Kim Michaels.

Kim Michaels: Thank You.  I’m glad to hear you like it.

Parthenia: Oh, you can see we are SO excited.  So, Vanessa, I wanted you to go over some of the things that that the people will get out of this book just by picking it up and spending a weekend reading it.

Vanessa: Well, you will learn how to transcend self-defeating beliefs from past trauma.  You will re-awaken and re-connect with your pure self.  You will free yourself from the limiting perception filters that shade your mental and emotional outlook.  You will transform your self-condemnation into self-confidence and unconditional love.  You will also let go of guilt, blame and shame.  And make the critical decision to accept yourself as worthy of love.

Parthenia: Now that, in and of itself, is worth reading the book.  Right?  And has it already helped you with that?

Vanessa: Oh yeah.  I was pretty lost for a couple of weeks and this is exactly what I needed.  I asked for this, you know.  So I can get right back on track.

Parthenia: OK, so, in this hour, Kim, I wanted to look at and I wanted to have you talk about we-esteem versus me-esteem versus what true self-esteem is.  And I also wanted, later in the hour, to talk about how we can still the outer mind so that we can actually experience God’s unconditional love.  And, Kim, I wanted you to talk to us about the difference between what we think love is and what unconditional love is.  But, before we go into that, I found a song by Mariah Carey, OLD school.  It’s called: They Can’t Take That Away From Me.  And I wanted to do a little intro on that, Eric; because I think it embodies the essence of self-esteem and the light that we have within.

(They play the first verse of the song.

Parthenia: OK, Kim, I think that that really speaks to true self-esteem.  So could you explain to the audience the difference between we-esteem and me-esteem, first?

Kim Michaels: Well, often in our society we are brought up without really having what I call true self-esteem.  And, instead of that, we go into these two things that I call me-esteem and we-esteem.  And me-esteem is really where you are focused on raising yourself up compared to other people.  You are trying to stand out from the crowd and say: “Heah, here I am.  I’m better.  My parents are richer.  I have a bigger car.  I have a better education.  I have this.  I have that.”  And that’s me-esteem.  And we-esteem is kind of the opposite, where you try not to draw any attention to yourself.  You try to blend into a group so you kind of disappear.  But you still get a sense of: “I’m somebody, because I belong to this group.”  And I think that the obvious problem with both of them is that it is so dependent on other people’s view of you.  And how can that be SELF-esteem?  You are always looking for validation from somebody else.  And that’s not what I see as self-esteem, because self-esteem has to come from inside yourself.  And it’s just like the song was saying.  If your self-esteem is dependent on other people’s validation; they can take away, because they are giving it to you.

Parthenia: Yes, you know, Guy Ritchie – I always refer people to that movie, Revolver, because it’s very spiritually based.  And he calls all of us approval junkies.  And I think that that’s the epitome of me-esteem and we-esteem.  Because, even with me-esteem, it’s like you got to put other people down in order to feel better.  You got make people less than.  And then it’s the same thing with we-esteem.  It’s our group is superior to your group.  Or they will ostracize you, if you don’t belong to the in crowd.  It’s like the insiders and outsiders.  And if you become an individual and you don’t comply with the group or the borg mentality; then that group will gang up on you, as I know very well.

Kim Michaels: Yes, just as they will support you, if you conform; they will turn on you very, very quickly.

Parthenia: Yes!  So, it’s a very treacherous kind of slippery slope, you know to deal – it’s like you have to sell your soul to be a part of the we-esteem, and your identity.  And what were you going to say, Vanessa?

Vanessa: Well, I just realized that it seems like everyone is motivated by these two dynamics.  I saw it in myself how maybe I don’t want to get out of bed because – maybe I shouldn’t do something, because it’s not gonna to be praised by someone else.  And that’s not gonna, you know –

Parthenia: And they disapprove of you.

Vanessa: Exactly, so what’s the point of trying anything if no one’s going to see it, or no one’s going to like it?  You know?

Parthenia: And also, Kim, the other thing is when you are working with the light or in the light, there is always this group that’s going to attack.  You know, the accuser of the brethren, it’s called in Revelation.  And Alice Miller, this wonderful psychologist, calls it soul murder.  If they can’t murder you physically, they will murder your soul.  And they will gang up on you.  So, it’s very, very difficult to let your light shine.  It’s like the hounds of the Baskervilles are coming after you just for shining it.

Kim Michaels: It’s difficult, because we have been tricked into thinking that we have to produce a certain outer result and we have to get a certain reaction from other people.  I mean, when you’re talking about just letting your light shine; I think that’s an extremely important topic for spiritual people.  Because I have seen it in myself.  I have seen SO-O many people who, when they are relatively new to the spiritual path; they are actually seeking to get approval from others by expressing their spiritual beliefs or letting their light shine, as you call it.  And that is disastrous, because we in most cases won’t get it; because there are so many people that just don’t understand the spiritual side of life.  And that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the book, because I realized that when it comes to self-esteem, those of us who are spiritual; we are actually worse off than most other people.  Because for most of our lives we’ve had these inner questions that nobody else wants to talk about.  We’ve had a sense of being different.  And we have been put down for that.

Parthenia: Yes, and attacked.

Kim Michaels: So, it’s harder for us to fit into this big group in society.  And that’s one reason why, for example, some people get attracted to cults.  Because when you fit yourself into a cult environment; you get the approval of the group, as long as you fit in and don’t question it.  And that’s very unfortunate.  And it could all be avoided if people had a deeper understanding.  So that when it comes to expressing your light and being who you are; you can’t really do it to get approval.  You have to do it, because it gives you a sense of joy and fulfillment to express who you are.  Of course, you have to know who you are first.  And that’s part of what the book is all about.

Parthenia: Well, and you know the oracle at Delphi says to know thyself.  And the biggest trick that has been pulled on, I think, society; is hiding our true self.  And that was one of the beautiful things that you reveal in the book, is how to – you show us a path to finding your true self and your true identity.  And as long as that’s hidden from – it’s not in the educational system and it’s actually condemned for us to be able to teach that; then young people will turn to drugs.  They are going to turn to gangs.  They are going to turn to alternative methods of trying to find some kind of esteem.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  I have Kim Michaels as – he is my co-host, but I’m also actually discussing his book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  And I have Vanessa Benjamin, who is reading the book, and she has an insight she wants to share.

Vanessa: I was just kind of going off on what Kim said about how people who start on the spiritual path.  They first do it to kind of get approval from people.  And I think that’s probably what I was doing.  And now I’m realizing I’m more alienated than I probably ever was before.  I don’t really have any desire to fit into any group.  

Parthenia: Anymore.

Vanessa: Yeah.  At the same time, I was like wow; I’m doing all this stuff and nobody likes me anyway.

Parthenia: Yeah (and laughs).  And that’s a rude awakening, and actually a very good awakening, when you realize that you’ve been doing things to conform to other people and to get their approval.  Whether it’s you parents or your friends, and they’re talking about you behind your back.  And they don’t like you anyway.  So what is the point?  You’re selling yourself out.  And I saw that at a very early age.  But, Kim, what I loved about your book was the fact that you had the courage to share your personal journey without going into too much detail.  And you also didn’t condemn anybody.  You didn’t condemn yourself.  And that’s very difficult to do when you’re talking about your own personal journey.  So I really want to applaud you on how well you did that in the book.

Kim Michaels: Well, what I think - that’s also one of the effects of acquiring, over time, - and for me it took many years, but acquiring - a true sense of self-esteem is that you can actually talk about yourself, because you’re not trying to put on a façade.

Parthenia: Well, we will be back after commercial break with more of The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem by Kim Michaels.  And we will be looking at – in the next segment, how we got caught up in a catch 22 with original sin.  Kim, I’d like for you to talk about that.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I am Dr. Parthenia Grant.  You can find us on facebook at Divine Love Talk.


Parthenia: Alright.  We’re back with more of Divine Love Talk and how you can find that light within you.  That was Mariah Carey with They Can’t Take That Away From Me.  Now, Kim – we’re talking to my co-host, Kim Michaels and his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  And, Kim, I think that our light was taken away from us by a lot of the dogma that we bought into through various religions.  And I think one of them was the dogma about original sin.  And how that became a catch 22.  I read Joseph Heller’s book, Catch 22, years ago and I thought you did one of the simplest, best explanations of what a catch 22 is.  So, could you explain that very quickly for the audience and go into how we got caught up in a catch 22 with original sin?

Kim Michaels: Well, a catch 22 is really a situation that once you got into it, you can’t get out of it by your own power; because there is something that is stopping you.  And that’s really what the whole concept of original sin does to us.  Because it opens us up to this idea that we were flawed from the beginning.  It doesn’t matter who you are.  It doesn’t matter what you’ve done, because you were created flawed by this God, who supposedly is all-perfect and all-good, and who supposedly loves you.  But, nevertheless, he created you with a fundamental flaw.  I mean, I don’t know how that makes any sense to anybody, honestly.

Parthenia: It didn’t make sense to me, either.

Kim Michaels: And I’m just thinking about it now.  It’s hitting me as I’m saying this.  How does that make any sense that a good God would create you flawed?  And that an omnipotent God somehow screwed up when he created you?

Parthenia: Well, and I can see how it got us where we are today, because we feel helpless and hopeless.

Vanessa: Unworthy.

Parthenia: And unworthy, but at the same time we feel like we need to be perfect in order for God to approve of us.  So it really is this catch 22 and in Joseph Heller’s book, it was about this World War II bomber, who wanted to get out of being on this kamikaze mission, where he could get bombed and blown up at any moment.  But the only way he could get out of it was by asking a psychologist to declare him – what was it insane or mentally incompetent?

Kim Michaels: Yeah, insane.

Parthenia: Insane.  But then the psychologists says: “Well, if you have the clarity of mind to ask to be declared insane, then you are not insane.”  You know to ask to be declared insane.  And so, it reminded me of how the system that we work under – it’s so insane that it creates these rules that are double binds, where if you work within the system; you literally have to go crazy.  You have to drink the Jim Jones Kool-Aid in order to be a part of the system.  And most people drink that Kool-Aid.  And for those of us who are on the spiritual path, we don’t want the Kool-Aid.

Vanessa: And we’re the crazy ones.

Parthenia: Yeah.  And we’re the crazy ones.  That’s why I wrote the book.  I thought I was the crazy one.  But that belief in original sin, Kim, how do we pull, how do we extricate ourselves out of it?

Kim Michaels: Well, I mean, we can do something rationally by realizing that it wasn’t an idea that was part of Jesus’ original teachings at all.  It was added later when the Roman Catholic Church had been formed.  And so you can look at that.  That’s just a historical fact, you know.  I’m not trying to knock the Catholics or the Catholic Church.

Parthenia: Yeah, the Nicene Council.

Kim Michaels: Yeah.  It just a historical fact.  Well, not really in the Nicene Creed.  It’s not in there, but it is in Augustine and the later church teachings.  But it wasn’t there in Jesus’ teachings.  He didn’t say that we are flawed.  Why would he have thought we were flawed when he said: “Fear not little flock, it’s your father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom”?

Parthenia: Alright, so when we come back after commercial break, we’re gonna talk more about the Father’s good pleasure to give us the kingdom.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  You can find us on Divine Love Talk on YouTube and on facebook.  We’re talking to Kim Michaels and his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  We’ll be back with more of the spiritual road to self-esteem after commercial break.


Parthenia: OK, we’re back with more Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  You can find us on facebook at Divine Love Talk and on YouTube.  And we’re talking about Kim Michaels’ new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  It’s available at Barnes and Noble.  You want to go out and get a hard copy.  Kim, when is it going to be out as an e-book.  Do you have a projected date?

Kim Michaels: Well, it is out right now on Kindle and the iBook store.  Last I looked it wasn’t on Nook, yet, but it should be coming there very shortly, also.

Parthenia: Oh, it’s on Kindle.  Ok, great.  So, I know if it’s on Kindle, you can get it from Amazon.  Am I correct?

Kim Michaels: Yeah, you can get the printed book from Amazon, as well.

Pathenia: OK, so you want to rush out and get it.  Vanessa, you said your mom went out and bought her a copy.

Vanessa: Yeah, so we got two, one for her, one for me.

Parthenia: Well, what inspired her?

Vanessa: Well, there’s a part in this book that talks about how obesity – there’s a spiritual connection.  And I was tell her maybe the reason why you’re having issues losing your weight is because it stems from some type of childhood trauma.  And she was telling me how she gets anxious anytime that she feels like she is about to starve.  And I’m like, well, you know, that comes from your childhood and everything like that.

Parthenia: And feeling you didn’t have enough.

Vanessa: Yeah, and just not having enough food.

Parthenia: Well that’s one of the points that you made in the book, Kim, that was very poignant and I had to laugh, also.  When you were talking about the importance of looking at not just your spirituality, but your psychology.  And how it was even scarier for your family when you decided to go into therapy, it was more scary than you joining a spiritual group.  And I know that that’s really true in America and within a lot of ethnic groups, where they feel like: “Oh, that means they’re coming to take me away in a straitjacket somewhere and I’m really, really crazy.”  When in effect – for instance, right now I’m dealing with a lot of stress at work and so I’m seeing a therapist for post-traumatic stress.  And this show actually alleviates a lot of my stress, because this is my passion and I love doing it and this is my volunteer service to humanity.  And we have to find ways to alleviate our stress.  And there’s so many different kinds and forms of psychology out there that are helpful.  So, Kim, I really appreciated you being very candid about that, as well.

Kim Michaels: Yeah, well, I think we all need therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder.

Parthenia: Don’t we?

Kim Michaels: No, really.  Because just look at what we just talked about with original sin.  If you have grown up in an environment where you have been told from an early age that you are a sinner and that God is an angry god who will condemn you to hell; you are having stress.  I mean what worse stress could there be, if you really in this?  And you can say thank god I didn’t have a religious upbringing, but (laughter from all).  My parents weren’t into original sin whatsoever.  They would have probably laughed if you told them they were sinners.  It wasn’t a thought that was in their mind very much; so they didn’t put it in mine, naturally.

Parthenia: Well, good.

Kim Michaels: But when you think about it, we as spiritual people, as I said earlier, we have often been ostracized both by family and friends.  And it is very traumatic.  If you have a very, very deep inner belief that’s very important to you, because it’s very important for you to know a deeper truth about life; and yet you are put down for that belief, that is an incredible amount of stress.

Parthenia: And if you add to it, not just put down, but people are actually persecuted all over the world and in America, no less, for having beliefs that are different from the status quo.  I mean this is 2013 and it’s real and it’s happening.  It’s happening to me.

Kim Michaels: Umm hmm.  It‘s happening to an awful lot of people, I think.  Even for that matter, what we get from scientific materialism, that our spiritual beliefs are just superstition.  And that can also be very traumatic for a lot of people.  And I think a lot of people, they respond by simply – you can’t deal with it.  You don’t really have a defense against it, so you just have to numb yourself and withdraw from the whole topic of spirituality.  And I think many people have done that.

Parthenia: And you talked about the two mechanisms of denial.  You said we either go into denial or we go into this fight.  And either way it doesn’t help us actually solve the problem.

Kim Michaels: Yeah, that’s true.  And the standard is fight or flight, where you try to fight back.  And you then get yourself involved with this whole fight with people.  I mean you can see it right now, even publicly.  Western civilization is – there is a debate between the new atheists that are very militant in their attacks on religion and then religious apologists or creationists.  And you know, all they can do is fight each other and try and come up with more and more arguments.  But I think that most people who are spiritual, they just can’t identify with either side.  I mean I don’t feel that either side speaks for me, whatsoever.

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim Michaels: And so we really have to find something in between, that’s a different way.  And that’s part of what I talk about in later parts of the book, where we find a deeper approach to life and about who we are.  What kind of beings are we?

Parthenia: Well, I think the book is so deep and so profound.  You know, Kim, we’re going to have to do two shows on this book and maybe even three, because you offer some real life practical solutions at the end of the book that deserve a show, in and of itself.   But, what I want to touch on – Vanessa you were saying last night, because you have a hard time sleeping, as do a lot of us – but you said for the first time you slept last night.

Vanessa: Yeah, ‘cause usually I literally don’t sleep before I do a show or something, or even go to school for that matter.  So, I actually had restorative sleep.  And that’s how I know things are getting better for me.

Parthenia: So what can you attribute it to?

Vanessa: Well, a lot of this stuff that Kim was saying.  There is no need for you to really worry about what other people think, because these are standards that are not God’s standards.  So why am I ruminating over something, keeping myself up at night, based on something that’s an illusion?  So, after I know that it’s an illusion, I can just kind of let it go and sleep.

Parthenia: Now, Kim, that’s pretty powerful.

Kim Michaels: That’s very good.  I was also thinking about what we talked about a little while ago about original sin and how we overcome it.  And I said the first thing is we can rationalize and see it was not in Jesus’ original teachings.  But, the only real way, I think, to overcome that is to actually experience that God loves YOU.

Vanessa: Yes.

Kim Michaels: And that God loves you unconditionally.  And that’s what I talk about also in the later parts of the book.  And I describe an experience I had myself.  But I, also, give really some practical advice on how people can come to that point.  Because part of what happens with the whole original sin debate is that we are actually conditioned to think that God couldn’t possibly love us if we’re not absolutely perfect.  And that’s not what Jesus said.  The whole idea of Jesus’ teaching and example was that we all have the potential to experience God’s love.  That’s why he said it’s the Father’s good pleasure to GIVE you his kingdom, which is unconditional love.  And another thing that comes up with our upbringing, whether we are spiritual or not, but I think especially for spiritual people; is that – it’s like we have this idea, sort of an offspring of original sin that’s floating around out there, that you can actually make such a severe mistake that you could never be redeemed.

Vanessa: Right.

Parthenia: Right.

Kim Michaels: And you could do something so terrible.  And this, of course – and in a sense it’s true, because you can do something that makes people in your group reject you.

Parthenia: Umm hmm.

Kim Michaels: And that’s what many spiritual people have experienced.  They have been rejected by parents and family.  And so that’s true when it comes to the human realm.  But it is actually not true when it comes to the realm of God and our spiritual teachers, because they will not reject us.  They will always offer us a way to raise ourselves above whatever things we have done in the past.  And the whole idea of Jesus’ teaching actually, and of the ascended master’s teachings today, is that whatever you may have done; you can rise above it.

Parthenia: Well, and I think that’s an incredible gift.  And I think that what really holds us trapped in this density is this double edged sword of free will.  We don’t understand it.  And especially the fact that there are consequences to our actions.  And that when we play with the dark, that we have the free will to do it; but we are inviting sort of a Pandora’s Box of misery and pain and suffering and separation from God.  When we move over there on that square, when we could just as easily choose love and oneness.  But our teachings – nobody’s really stressing that at a young age.  That we have choices and that there are causes and consequences to free will and that we should use it responsibly.

Vanessa: And that we can always undo a choice.

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim Michaels: Yeah, that’s very true.  I mean, we have on the one hand - I think we have traditional religion and the whole idea that we are sinners by nature.  And that means you don’t really have free will.  You didn’t choose to have God create you as a sinner, right?  And the only way, supposedly, you can get out of it is that Jesus comes and saves you.  And then you have on the other hand scientific materialism that says you are just a highly evolved monkey.  And I think - you were talking earlier about how young people will go into various negative things if they don’t have an alternative.  And I think the biggest problem is that the two main belief systems we have don’t teach us that life has a purpose, that there’s a meaning to life.

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim Michaels: And I do talk about that throughout the book.  I also talk about how we can overcome this sense of the separate self that is always threatened and always is trying to fight somebody.  And I think really that this is one of the key ideas, I think, that is coming up in society right now.  And I think that the reason a lot of the people are, a lot of young people are rebelling against their parent’s way of living is that they actually know within that it’s time for us, as a civilization, to step up to a higher world view.

Parthenia: Yes.

Kim Michaels: And their parents don’t want to do it.  And the parent’s generation don’t want to do it.  But the young people feel it.  They just don’t know where it’s going to come from, because they can see that it’s not going to come from traditional religion.  It’s not going to come from materialism.  What else is there in normal society?

Parthenia: We’re not offering them any viable or real options.  You pointed out in the book that you find it amazing that our society teaches children about technological devices, but does not teach them to operate the device that affects everything they do in life.  Would you tell them what that device is?  The audience.

Kim Michaels: Yeah, that’s the mind.  The mind, the psyche.

Parthenia: And I thought you brought to light so many truths that I think are self-evident, but a lot of people really just kinda overlook that.  We really have got to give young people permission to think.  And yet, at the same time, when you do that – I know where I teach – giving students permission to think critically is tantamount to a sin.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Parthenia: And I get punished for it.

Kim Michaels: But isn’t that greatly ironic when we have an educational system that’s based on science?  And the very idea of science is open-ended questioning.

Parthenia: Yes.

Vanessa: Right.

Kim Michaels: Science tried to distance itself from religion, because religion had dogmas that you couldn’t question.  And we know how the early scientists were persecuted for questioning church dogma.  Well, now, we have a scientific system and educational system that also has dogmas that nobody is allowed to question.  What kind of irony is that?

Parthenia: It’s a scary irony, because sometimes I fell like am I back – you know I feel like The Crucible with Arthur Miller, like the Salem witch trials, the Inquisition.  And it’s a resurgence of that today, in America, no less.  If you don’t toe the party line, then the entire group comes and they attack you like a bunch of hyenas attacking a lion.

Kim Michaels: But it’s not really that you are attacked, Parthenia.  It’s just that human-kind hasn’t overcome this tendency to feel threatened by those who are different.

Parthenia: That’s very true.

Kim Michaels: And that has been there always.  Why did they kill Jesus?  Because he threatened them SO much, that they couldn’t handle it.  And they had to get rid of him.  And it is ironic that Christianity was later turned into a religion that did the exact same thing to those who questioned its dogmas.

Parthenia: Isn’t that interesting?

Kim Michaels: But that is what we talk about so many times, the ego.  Because the ego is what feels threatened and it goes into this – it has to remove that threat.  And if it can’t silence the people that it sees as a threat, it will try to destroy them.

Parthenia: Thank you.

Kim Michaels: And if it can’t do it physically because we have a civilized society today, it will do it psychologically.  You were talking about soul murder.  And I have had people who deliberately tried to murder my soul.  And it’s a very – it’s kind of an amazing experience when you realize that here are people who would destroy you, if they could.

Vanessa: Wow.

Parthenia: Oh, and I was in a meeting recently with – where a friend came with me to this meeting with these authority figures from the school.  And when we walked out of there, he said: “Sweetheart, I am afraid for your life.”  He said if these people don’t get you one way, they’re going to make up another way to get you.  And he was really, really concerned.  And those are things that make us want to shut down our light, because we are attacked for them.  So Kim, you’ve got so much to share in your book.  And there’s so much that I want to cover.  I wish the show were two hours today.  After commercial break, we’re going to wrap this up.  You are listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN.  We’re talking to Kim Michaels with his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You want to go out to Barnes and Noble or and pick up this book right away, because it offers some solutions to true pure self-esteem that no one else has really hit upon.


Parthenia: OK, we’re back with more Divine Love Talk on CRN.  I’m Dr. Parthenia Grant.  You can find us at Divine Love Talk on facebook and on YouTube.  We’re talking to Kim Michaels, my co-host, and his new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You can find this at Barnes and Noble and at Amazon.  You want to rush out and get that book.  There’s so many solutions, Kim, in the second half of the book that next week I want to go over how we can shift from results to process by moving away from a deficit approach and enjoying every step of the journey.  That’s why I use that movie, The Peaceful Warrior.  Because he talks about how happiness is in the journey, not the destination.  And, Kim, I thought you did a wonderful job with that.  And you also talked about making the goal not one of instant enlightenment, but switching to a goal of what?  What would you say we should switch to instead of trying to get instant enlightenment?

Kim Michaels: Well, I think we should focus on flowing with life and flowing with all kinds of situations, looking at every situation that comes up as a way to expand our self-awareness.  I was running with my tongue sticking out for a good 25 years on the spiritual path.

(Parthenia laughs and says: That would be me.  And she continues laughing while Kim continues.) 

Kim Michaels: And I was: “I have to do more.  I have to do more.  I have to do hours a day.  How can I fit more in?  How can I do all this?”  And it just, you know – I come to a point where I actually saw a movie about World War II and they were talking about how some soldiers get battle fatigue.  I realized that if I had been a soldier in World War II, I could only have been in a war state of mind, in a war mode, in a battle mode for five years.  But now I was on the spiritual path and I was still in battle mode and I had been so for more than five years.  And I thought: “It’s time to change.  It’s time to stop the war.”  But see, there is always going to be something in this world you can fight.  And you just have to decide you can never defeat it.  It’s not a matter of winning some kind of victory.  It’s a matter of when you have had enough of the fighting and you say: “I’m just going to walk away from it.”  For me the spiritual path was a fight.  (Parthenia laughs.)

Parthenia: You mentioned moving out of enlightenment to constant self-transcendence and I can really relate to that.  And it was sort of a relief to me to go: “Oh, OK.”  So, I already understood that education is a lifelong process and I see myself as a lifelong student.  And so, when I switched to understanding that spirituality is a lifelong process and that you’re constantly self-transcending; then I could pull myself out of the rat race and stop looking for this destination mark of enlightenment and just start enjoying every step of the journey.  So we’ll be back next week with more of The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  There’s so much to cover in terms of suggestions for young people, for our educational system, and how we can quiet the inner mind.  So, Kim Michaels, congratulations on your new book, The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.

Kim Michaels: Thank you.

Parthenia: I want to encourage everyone to go out and get a copy of this book.  And sit down with it.  And we’ll see you next week with more of Kim Michaels and The Spiritual Road to Self-Esteem.  You can find him on  And you can find us on Divine Love Talk at facebook and YouTube.  Thank you Vanessa Benjamin for joining us once again on Divine Love Talk on CRN.



Copyright © 2013 Kim Michaels






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