The Mystical Initiations of Love, Part 3


March 23, 2015 Divine Love Talk

Host: Dr. Parthenia Grant

Co-host: Kim Michaels

Topics: Kim’s book, The Mystical Initiations of Love. Freedom to feel safe to talk about your feelings. Purpose of spiritual relationships. Knowing when to walk away.

(The first portion of the recording was missing. Divine Love Talk on CRN, Dr. Parthenia Grant and Kim Michaels are discussing Kim's new book, The Mystical Initiations of Love.) 

Parthenia:And now, this year, that we are undergoing the initiations of love under the third ray; I'm noticing that relationships are falling apart even worse than they already were before. Because everybody's stuff is coming up. So, I'm just so grateful that you released this book. It is just right on time.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. It is really a big drain on most people, as especially most spiritual people, that we have various relationships where we have all these power games going on. And I agree with you, especially this year, I feel – And that has been said in the book, as well. – that it's becoming more difficult to maintain a relationship with a lot of unresolved issues, where you can't talk openly about the problems.

Parthenia:Right. For me, the way that I solve problems is by talking about them. And when you're in any kind of relationship with someone who's in denial about their own issues and they're defending their ego and they don't want to look at it; it's impossible to resolve anything in that kind of relationship. ...

Kim Michaels:I think what, unfortunately, has happened in a lot of relationships, whether they're a close personal relationship or in other ways, is that you get to a certain point where communication is being blocked


Kim Michaels:It's like you have an issue in the relationship and if you could talk freely about it; it wouldn't be that hard to resolve the issue.


Kim Michaels:But now, you have some kind of game going on, as you were saying, where people are trying to defend themselves or defend their egos or their wounds. And that makes it impossible to actually talk freely about the issue. And that is one of the big topics that the book is talking about, establishing that free communication.

Parthenia:Yeah. Because, honestly, if you don't feel safe in a relationship … People who have these temper tantrums and they have these buttons that get pushed. And you don't even know you're pushing a button, because it's some king of psychological wound from their childhood. ...

Kim Michaels:Yeah. I certainly have experienced this. And I actually think that a lot of spiritual people have experienced the same thing; because, as spiritual people, we tend to be very sensitive to other people.


Kim Michaels:And we also tend to not be so aggressive. So, that means we are sensitive to the people around us, who have these issues with temper tantrums. And it's almost like your whole relationship, you are always on edge. You're always on guard.

Parthenia:Walking on eggshells.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. And it just brings such an artificial element into the relationship that it isn't a normal – You don't feel safe, like you said, and you don't feel like you can be yourself and you can express yourself freely; because you're always trying to anticipate what the reaction is going to be before you dare to say anything.

Parthenia:Right. ... The book has helped me look at my own relationships in the past. And what has continually come up for me is – I had to listen to that dictation that you did from Astrea on the accuser of the brethren. And it seems to boil down to that, in terms of blocking communication. ...

Kim Michaels:I can recognize the pattern in my own life, as well. And, as I said, many spiritual people will find the same thing. What I always do in those situations is I look at my life and I say: “Have I experienced this before?” And then, I try to say: “Why have I attracted the same situation again?” And my assumption is always I haven't learned the lesson the first time, so I had to have it again. So, I have to look at: “What is my lesson?” But I have also come to the conclusion is that part of my lesson in these kinds of relationships is that I have to learn to say no to these kind of people. I don't want to be in a relationship with people who are like that. And I have a right to say no.

Parthenia:Exactly. And, Kim, honestly, I came to that conclusion after: “OK. It took me a whole lifetime to figure out I don't have to put up with this nonsense from people that I work with, family members, intimate relationships.” It really is an issue of setting boundaries and being OK with: “That is not acceptable. You can't just blind side me and attack me out of nowhere. And I don't even know what your buttons are, 'cause you got so many of them that get triggered.”

Kim Michaels:There's just one big button.

Parthenia:Right. Go ahead.

Kim Michaels:What I think trips us up many times, as spiritual people, at least it did for me, is that I had the idea in my mind that if I was a really spiritual person; I should always try to be harmonious all the time.


Kim Michaels:And that means that I should adapt to other people. So, when people went off on me; I should be able to be harmonious and kind and peaceful about this. And so, I was trying to adapt. And I was trying to do that for many, many years. I was always trying to adapt to these aggressive people that I seemed to attract to me all the time. And I finally came to the conclusion: “No. I'm not supposed to adapt. I'm supposed to say no.”

Parthenia:(Laughs.) Isn't it amazing how long it takes us to figure this out?

Kim Michaels:Oh, yeah. It is.

Parthenia:It's so simple. And when I finally got: “It's OK to not tolerate intolerable behavior, mean spirited people, and people who are vicious. ... It took forever for him to admit that he might have some anger management issues. But my whole role was to just let him spew forth his anger and his craziness on me. And then, he can walk away and feel better, (Kim scoffs.) because he dumped all of that on me. And then, he comes back cool and calm and like nothing happened and: “Oh, I've dealt with it.” Well, yeah, you did. You dumped it on me. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:That's not dealing with it.


Kim Michaels:That's asking you to deal with it.

Parthenia:Thank you. “You get to dump on me.” And I was: “OK. Enough already!” And then blaming me, because: “How dare you. You're a spiritual person. You're just supposed to put up with it, because this is normal and this is natural in relationships.” And I was like: “Whoa! There is something so twisted and so psychopathic in this thinking that I really need to get out of this.” ...

Kim Michaels:That's very, very true. There is an awful lot of abuse in spiritual movements. I've experienced it myself, just because of that mechanism. You think that you are supposed to put up with almost anything. And before you know it, you've put up with so much; you've lost yourself.

Parthenia:Exactly. And you're just a doormat for their psychosis that they don't want to deal with. … ”OK. You need some help. And I'm not the one to put up with that.”

Kim Michaels:No. And I have experienced in my own life that once I get to that point of decision, then I don't encounter those kind of people anymore.

Parthenia:Well, I – Phew. (Laughs.)

Kim Michaels:Or if I do, it just doesn't matter. It just rolls off, because now I've learned the lesson. I don't take it personally. It's almost like the lesson is they have somehow – I'm not saying they even do this consciously. – But they get you take this personally when they are saying you're not spiritual enough. And as long as you do that, then the mechanism has control over you.


Kim Michaels:You are vulnerable to their games. But the moment you decide that instead of putting up; you're going to stand up for yourself, then you're not vulnerable anymore.

Parthenia:Well, that is the lesson, isn't it Kim?

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:And getting there, it can be sooner or later with some people. It took me a long, long time. …


Parthenia:OK. We're back, continuing our discussion with Kim Michaels about his new book, The Mystical Initiations of Love. Kim, I always like to quote 1Corinthians 13:4 about what love really is; 'cause, honestly, I have not found a better definition of love. And it says that love is patient. “Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It does not dishonor others. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered. It keeps no records of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trust, always hopes, and always perseveres.” And so, there's some key things in this. I think when people are looking at what is love in a relationship, whatever relationship it is, versus anti-love. I think this is a pretty good monitor. What do you think?

Kim Michaels:It is a good definition, but it is also part of the problem, I think. Because it's part of our Christian heritage where love has been seen as being entirely passive.

Parthenia:Yes. I thought about that. … (Parthenia talks about people who are completely egotistical and very dysfunctional) And so, I feel like if I am a loving person; I would never want to consciously do anything that would hurt someone else.

Kim Michaels:I agree with you. But I also think part of the problem we are running into here is what the book talks about, where – And you said it in the beginning, yourself. – we are so afraid of being accused of not being loving.


Kim Michaels:Of course there are people who are completely egotistical and very dysfunctional. But I think there are also a lot of spiritual people, where you are in a relationship and you can't really say that your partner is completely evil or dysfunctional. I don't think that's healthy.

Parthenia:Of course. Absolutely.

Kim Michaels:But your partner may be afraid of not being loving. And so, sometimes we get into this dysfunctional thing, where instead of – We're so afraid of admitting that we have a problem, that we think we have to refute it, deny it or push it away.

Parthenia:Yes. And it's OK. There is a problem. If it gets to the point where something is bothering both people or one person; there is a problem. And it does need to be addressed. Even if it's just one person who's having the issue, you really have to take the time to sit down and talk to that person about it. Otherwise, it is going to blow up and it is going to get bigger and bigger. And I see this all the time with guys that come to me and their wife or their girlfriend left them and they go: “Oh, everything was perfect. It was just the perfect relationship.” And I go: “You mean she never complained about anything?” And then they'll go: “Ah, well, it was insignificant, just little bitty things.” And I go: “Well, obviously, it wasn't little to her; because she left you.”

Kim Michaels:She gave you all the warning signs and you didn't hear them.


Kim Michaels:And then, you didn't hear it until she actually left.


Kim Michaels:And that's a very common pattern. But I think that has a lot to do with this. It's not necessarily that people are stupid or have ill-will; but it's just that they haven't learned what you obviously have learned. And what you have known all your life is that you can deal with the problem and then you can get over it.


Kim Michaels:They think that you can't get over it; because they think that if they admit they have done something wrong, they are condemned forever. And this is part of our culture, as well.


Kim Michaels:So, I think maybe in your case, you don't realize that when you speak the truth – You don't always realize how much that is threatening to people who aren't at the same level you're at.

Parthenia:Oh, I do! (Both laugh.) I realize that. It's just that if you're in a relationship with them, somewhere you gotta deal with the truth in order to solve the problem and to move on. So, we'll pick that up, we'll pick this discussion up after commercial break. You're listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I'm your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant, interviewing my co-host, Kim Michaels about his amazing book, The Mystical Initiations of Love.


Parthenia:OK. We're back with more of Divine Love Talk, discussing The Mystical Initiations of Love. And Kim, we left off on this whole issue of how people are really, really threatened by the truth. And Eric and I were talking on commercial break. And wanted Eric to offer an insight. This is Eric Hines (spelling?), our engineer at CRN.

Eric: Hey, Kim and all you listeners out there to the Divine Love Talk show. How's it going?

Kim Michaels:Good.

Eric: So, me and Dr. Grant were talking during the break. This show, ironically, often times, touches on topics that I'm addressing in my life or those nearby. And I have a very dear friend that me and him were having a conversation this weekend. And he was having issues with his wife. He's a very high functioning individual on the spiritual path and his wife right in line with him. But there are certain issues that they're running into and what you guys were talking about last segment hit the nail on the head. He was explaining to me that when he wants to bring up these bigger issues that have kind of been pervasing their lives throughout their relationship; the hostility starts, the aggression, the accusations of not being sensitive or not being caring. And he came to me and said: “I just don't know what to do anymore.” And, unfortunately, I didn't have the greatest advice for him. But I'm definitely going to direct him to listen to this show, because this is right on the topic. It's amazing.

Parthenia:Oh, thank you, Eric, for sharing that. So, Kim, what's your thoughts?

Kim Michaels:Well, I don't have a magic wand I can just pull out here and wave. (Parthenia laughs.) But I think that what we're touching on here is this whole issue of establishing freedom of communication, where you are really free to talk about an issue without having your partner go into this spiral of feeling accused.


Kim Michaels:And that is very, very difficult to do and it requires a lot of work. Now, you're talking about a long-term relationship here and you see that, as well. But you also see it in a lot of new relationships, where the relationship never gets over the hump where the partners can actually talk freely and be comfortable with each other.

Parthenia:Eric and I were saying that there ends up being this white elephant in the room that nobody's supposed to talk about; because if you bring it up, the other person – In my last relationship, he would say – He had real anger management issues, where he would just go off. And then, if I said something about it, then he'd go: “I'm feeling judged and criticized.” And I would go: “Wait a minute. What about the fact that there's a real problem here that needs to be dealt with, or this relationship isn't going to survive. Because I don't do relationships with people who just can't control their anger.

Kim Michaels:But you're supposed to, because you're such a spiritual person, Parthenia.

Parthenia:Exactly. (Belly laughs.)

Kim Michaels:So, that blocks it right there, if the other person has that attitude. And I think the only way to get beyond this is that each of the two people have to be willing to look at themselves. And sometimes that's the hardest thing to do. But one of the things that I find can maybe help this – is what the book talks about extensively – is that you need to realize that the purpose of a relationship is not what Hollywood has made you believe. The happily ever after stuff. If you're a spiritual person, you have attracted your partner to you for one reason only. That partner can make something visible in yourself that you can't see on your own. And if you can approach it as an opportunity for you to grow, and if both can do that; then I think you may be able to get over that hump and talk freely. Otherwise, you can't.

Parthenia:Oh, but the key, Kim, is both people. Eric, wouldn't you say? It doesn't work if it's just one person, who's able to deal with their stuff and who's OK in owning their part in it and whatever it is that they need to learn from it. ...

Eric: With my friend, he actually compared it to feeling like a care-giver.

Parthenia:Yes. To a sick person.

Eric: Because he feels like he's gotten to this point where he's now ready to move forward and really confront these issues that they have. And again, these are issues that have to do with like leaving the toilet bowl open. It has to do with something deep inside the other person. … And as you said in the last segment, Kim, this fear of condemnation, like I'm a bad person because I have these things going on inside me that they're fearful of that. He did compare it to feeling like a care-giver at some points.

Parthenia:That's an excellent point; because it does make you feel like that. And Kim, I'm sure you might have something to add to that.

Kim Michaels:What I'm thinking here is that this is one of the dysfunctional issues in spiritual people and in spiritual relationships, where actually you are on the spiritual path and you are studying and practicing and doing all the right things on the outer. But you're actually using the spiritual path as a way to cover over one of your deeper wounds, so you don't have to deal with it. And it almost sounds like the woman in this relationship you're talking about, Eric, is going through that phase, where she has such a deep wound that she can't bear facing it. And she has some how made herself think that she doesn't have to. And it is very possible that her husband cannot be the one who tells her this.

Parthenia:Yeah. That's true.

Kim Michaels:Because of the dynamic in their relationship, where she will be so used to him being the care-giver. Where he has actually helped her, or enabled her to avoid dealing with the wound. And if he breaks that, then it might break the relationship.

Parthenia:Ah. You're right. Sometimes you really have to get someone outside of the two of you to intervene. But often, the other person won't go for help. And then, you're in this stalemate in a relationship that's painful and that's blocked and it can't grow. And I think you have a decision that you have to make at that point. Can I live with this? Is this a deal-breaker? 

(Parthenia and Eric discuss this further.)

Parthenia:… And Kim, I think your book, The Mystical Initiations of Love, just gave me so many things to think about. It validated a lot of things that I already knew about the old Piscean paradigm of relationships versus what are the relationships in the Aquarian Age going to look like. Because we're not going to be able to carry into this new age the old paradigm. It's crumbling around us. And we keep trying to carry it with us.

Kim Michaels:And one of the strengths of the book is that it does – It walks a fine balance between identifying what issues are yours and what issues are not yours. In this case, what is the husband's issue? What is the wife's issue? And it does talk about this. How you have to come to this point where you're willing to look at yourself and identify: “I have a wound. And what I have done so far in my spiritual path hasn't actually helped me resolve it. So, I need to do something different.”


Kim Michaels:But that is really a very delicate process. Because I have seen so many people and I've seen it in myself, as well. Until a certain point, you just can't deal with a certain issue. You're simply not ready to look at it, because you're too wounded.

Parthenia:I agree with that. But at the same time, it's so painful that I'm always willing to listen and read more and study more and ask more questions and keep probing inside; because I don't like that pain. I don't like dealing with the same problem with myself, or anybody else, over and over. Because it just reminds too much of the Einstein quote of the definition of insanity. And there is a lot of insanity in relationships.

Kim Michaels:There is. And there's a lot of insanity in spiritual people all trying to hide their wounds, instead of looking at them. And I agree it is difficult. And you probably have to reach a certain amount of maturity and healing before you can look at some of these very deep issues we have in our psychology from past lives. But there does come a point where the only thing that's really standing in the way is you have to make a conscious decision: “I am willing to look at this, no matter how painful it is; because I want to get over the pain, so I don't have to keep having my entire life revolve around masking this pain and walking around it.”

(Parthenia quotes Hemingway.)

Kim Michaels:And one of the big messages in this book and in all of the ascended masters books is that there is nothing you cannot overcome. 


Kim Michaels:And certainly love is the universal healing agent that can heal any wound.

Parthenia:... I don't have energy and time for them in my life for them anymore. It's exhausting.

Kim Michaels:And that's a valid decision to make. Especially, when you have the history of you have been sensitive to other people. But there are, of course, many people who haven't come to that point; because they have been so wounded themselves that they haven't been sensitive to other people. And they haven't has that habit of looking at themselves first. They do the opposite. They always project that the problem is out there. And, of course, if you have two people doing that in a relationship, then there is no possibility of communication.


Kim Michaels:Because you have to come to that point where you find that balance, where you are willing to look at yourself; but you are not willing to always take upon yourself that you're the one that has to change, or you're the one who has the problem.

Parthenia:Because, in any situation, there's this dynamic of somebody gets triggered by something you said. Were you being rude or intentionally triggering that person? And some people do that. ...

Kim Michaels:It's a very delicate balance. I have, all of my life, had this tendency to always take it upon myself and always think that I'm the one who has to change.

Parthenia:Same here.

Kim Michaels:And that's OK. So, in a sense, I was thinking – For many, many years I was thinking that I do this because I have respect for other people. And I am capable of putting my own feelings aside so I can help others deal with theirs. And I came to a point where I realized that yes that's true, up to a point; but it isn't true to the extent that I'm doing it. Because I'm not actually respecting myself. And I'm not supposed to always put away my feelings in order to –

Parthenia:Accommodate everybody else's stuff.

Kim Michaels:Yeah. There comes a point where I have to look at and say: “OK. But who am I? And what are my needs? And what are my feelings?” Because, otherwise, I just disappear completely.

Parthenia:Oh, my God, I feel you. Totally. I totally know what you're talking about.

Kim Michaels:It was almost like I realized that for many years on the spiritual path I was, in a sense, trying to turn myself into a non-person, in order to always be harmonious and kind and gentle and all this stuff. And I realized that that really isn't what I'm supposed to be doing.

Parthenia:No. And some people will just push you and push you until – When you're calm and harmonious; their: “Uggh! I can't stand it. I gotta do something about this.”

Kim Michaels:That is very true. I was watching an interview on TV yesterday, where the interviewer was interviewing an author. (Parthenia laughs through the quote.) And she kept asking: “Don't you feel pressure? Isn't there some kind of pressure? There must be some pressure in your life.” That was her thing. And you're right. There are some people that just can't stand it. The more calm you are, the more they want a reaction from you. Otherwise, they will say: “You don't care about me, because you don't get upset.”

Parthenia:Exactly. We'll be back with more after commercial break. You're listening to Divine Love Talk on CRN. I'm your host, Dr. Parthenia Grant.


Parthenia:OK. We're back, wrapping this up with our discussion about The Mystical Initiations of Love. And Kim, I'd like to end it with: “When is it time to fold in a relationship?” Kenny Rogers says you gotta know when to hold, when to fold them, when to walk away and when to run. And think that applies to relationships. So, I'm going to give my two cents. OK? I think it's time to fold them when the partner is physically, mentally or emotionally abusive and refuses to get help; because it's all your fault and you believe him. Both of you need help, as well as, time apart to resolve the co-dependency issue. And I also think it's time to leave when you've tried everything to solve recurring problems in a relationship and your partner refuses to do his part to help resolve it. You cannot do it alone. It takes two to tango. So, I'd like your two cents, Kim.

Kim Michaels:I think those are very valid points. I personally look at it the way that my role, as a spiritual student who is walking the path, is to look at myself and see where do I have any attachments. Where am I reacting?


Kim Michaels:And both of those things you mentioned. You would obviously say to yourself, if you're honest: “I'm reacting to my partner.” And so, what I would do is I would say: “I have to look at myself and find out what is the psychological mechanism that causes me to react?” And when I have overcome that, then there are two options. Either the relationship is going to change; because sometimes if you change yourself, the dynamic of a relationship can change at the same time.

Parthenia:Sometimes. Yes. 

Kim Michaels:Yeah. Sometimes.

Parthenia:Not always.

Kim Michaels:No. No. But it can happen.

Parthenia:Right. Absolutely.

Kim Michaels:But if it doesn't happen, then when you no longer react – In a sense, I would say when you no longer have to leave; then it's time to leave.

Parthenia:Ah-ha-ha-ha. (Laughs.) I like that. So, Eric what did you get out of this?

Eric: Well, I know that I got to give my friend a call and we're going to have a nice long talk.

(Everyone laughs.)

Parthenia:OK. That is what it all boils down to, being able to talk. Freedom to feel safe to talk about your feelings and not be blamed as wrong. That is so important in a relationship, if it's going to survive.

Kim Michaels:And I really hope that this book (The Mystical Initiations of Love Amazon paperback or Kindle) can help people. If both could decide to read it on their own, maybe both partners would get some insights that could help them see exactly what you are saying. We need to find a different way to talk.

Parthenia:And even if only one person reads it and comes into an awareness or an understanding that I've done everything I can do. ... At the same time, looking at the relationship, it wasn't a spiritual relationship. He had a spiritual bypass and was a spiritual fraud and there was no real basis for connection in that relationship; because it was not based on truth. And so, OK, yeah, it was time to go.

Kim Michaels:And that's a valid decision. You are allowed to make that decision. And a lot of times we think we are not.

Parthenia:We think that because we are spiritual, we're supposed to stay in a relationship. Everything is supposed to match and work, just because you're both on a spiritual path. But you might not have the same destination. My destination is to get it right this lifetime and not have to come back. And if the other person is not on that same path, working through their karma; then it really isn't gonna work.

Kim Michaels:I agree with you, also. And it's fine to turn the other cheek when someone hits you. And you keep turning the other cheek until you're not reacting to them. But then, when you're no longer reacting; you don't have to stand there and let them slap you face indefinitely.

Parthenia:Because you got the lesson.

Kim Michaels:Yeah.

Parthenia:OK. Check that off. OK. (Both laugh.)

Kim Michaels:You have a right to move on. I don't need this anymore.

Parthenia:Next. OK. Thank you so much, Kim. I hope you all have enjoyed this discussion as much as I have. I always feel like I'm getting therapy for myself, every week. So, thank you for joining us on Divine Love Talk with Kim Michaels, my co-host. And I am you host, Dr. Parthenia Grant.



Copyright © 2015 Kim Michaels


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